Referral Diva With Virginia Muzquiz

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There is an art and science to being a magnetic human. John Livesay’s guest in this episode is Virginia Muzquiz, known as the “Referral Diva” and the Founder of Master Connector. Virginia talks with John about how you can influence without being manipulative. The key is empathy, which is the secret to quality referral partnerships and friendships. The sustainable method of referrals and connection is creating a team. You’ll need affiliates, ambassadors, and advocates who work on your behalf because they like who you are. If you want more tips on how to be magnetic, this episode’s for you. Tune in!

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Listen to the podcast here

Referral Diva With Virginia Muzquiz

Are you looking for a way to improve the number of quality referrals you get? Our guest, Virginia Muzquiz, is the Referral Diva who’s going to give you a plan on how to get referrals, execute the plan, track it, evaluate and repeat. Enjoy the episode.

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Our guest is Virginia Muzquiz, who is the Founder of Master Connectors and the creator of Referrals On Demand, which teaches solo entrepreneurs how to turn their network into a referral generating machine. With more than two decades of experiencing, developing and leveraging social capital to build a business, she has been teaching entrepreneurs and small business owners the art and science of filling their sales funnels with high-quality referrals.

She is passionate about increasing prosperity across the globe and uses her business to further the efforts of Ten by Three, an international nonprofit, creating economies of scale in third world countries by turning artisans into entrepreneurs. Her IMPACT FIRST philosophy inspires her clients to make different skills that inspire others to promote, connect and refer them to perfect ideal clients. Virginia, welcome to the show.

Referral Diva: There is an art and science to being a magnetic human and using influence without being manipulative.

Thanks so much, John. It’s great to be here.

Let’s go back as far as you want, your childhood, college, wherever you want to go and give us a little sense of when you start getting passionate about the value of relationships.

Every time someone says, “Tell me your story,” it makes me want to break into song and be like, “When I was a young warthog.” It’s from the lion king, I don’t know why that always cracks me up. I discovered the value of relationships because, as a kid, I grew up without them. I grew pretty independent. My brother is seven years older than I am.

He was off riding his bike when I was cutting my teeth on a tricycle. I didn’t have a playmate or anything. My mom was a woman who took great physical care for me but she was a victim of domestic violence and was deeply abused by her father. She was emotionally unavailable. My dad’s a grumpy old geezer and workaholic.

I grew up alone with Nancy Drew books in trees. I was a Betty Bossypants. I didn’t have a lot of friends. I didn’t have social skills, because where do you learn social skills as a kid? You learn them in your family. We didn’t do that. I grew up feeling lonely, disconnected and constantly seeking relationships and approval. What has happened is over time, I’ve realized that there is an art and science to being a magnetic human. Being able to use influence without being manipulative.

I work with people a lot when they say, “We want to be persuasive without being pushy when we’re selling something.” You have a different distinction around that as far as connecting in general, which is great.

I believe that there is a bit of a science to persuasion and influence but the difference between a narcissistic sociopath and a CEO is empathy. There are a lot of CEOs that are pretty narcissistic. I’m not being critical about that if you don’t understand what you do, what you say and how you walk in the world inspires or alienates people and you’re running around being the victim of your own bad behavior. I did one of those TTI assessments where they’re like, “Here’s your DISC and motivators.” There’s this like skill-based thing and it comes back. I have a 10 for influence and I have a 0 for empathy. I burst into tears years ago. I was like, “I am a sociopath. This is horrible.”

[bctt tweet=”Curiosity is the key to being more empathetic. ” username=”John_Livesay”]

The guy who did the testing said, “The simple fact that you can understand that influence untempered with empathy is a problem. It means you’re probably not a narcissist. You just don’t have a skillset.” I started coaching. Believe it or not, there are coaches who teach you empathy. It’s a vocabulary. I started realizing that understanding empathy was the key to quality selling, quality referral partnerships and, quality friendships. It’s that ability to understand, listen for and have some curiosity about, “What is John feeling in this moment and can I name it?”

I love that you said curiosity. That is one of the most underrated characteristics in a leader and people because it requires you to get the focus off yourself. You need to be interested in what’s going on in the world and learning a new skill. “I’m curious to learn about you. How did you get to where you are?” Any of those things lead to people saying, “You’re taking an interest in me. That makes me feel connected to you.” Ideally, the situation is reciprocal. There’s one thing you wrote in your LinkedIn profile. I’m a fanatic about reading those. It’s a great opportunity for people to tell their stories in a way that either pulls people in or pushes them away. How did the Referral Diva come up?

I was starting out in my coaching practice. It was 2010, 2011. I had purchased the Referral Institute Franchise, which doesn’t even exist anymore. It’s not a thing. The franchise rebranded and then got sold off. I realized the need for differentiation. You get behind a brand but you also need your edge. A friend of mine who was a mentor and an investor in my early coaching practice took me to this agency and said, “We’re going to take you to this agency. We’re going to brand you personally.” It’s going to be great. They’re way ahead of their time. They’re trying to give me a QR code and they’re like, “You need to be on Twitter.” I’m like, “I don’t do social media. It’s a time suck. I don’t want to do it. I’m not interested. I’m not going to Twitter.”

The owner of the agency walks through and goes, “Could you stop being such a diva?” The branding person that was assigned to my thing goes, “That’s it. Referral Diva, that’s you.” I was so incorrigible at the time. The definition of a diva is a woman of extraordinary talent. Not to brag but I’m extraordinary. I’m talented at the things I’m talented at, not much at the stuff I’m not but I’m talented at what I do. I started trying to embrace that side of the Diva brand. We are going forward and officially rebranding to the Referral Alchemist.

The Alchemist

I love the book The Alchemist. That’s the name of your process, the Referral Alchemy. This concept that you talk about, we’re lucky sometimes we meet a couple of referral archeologists who keep us in mind, referrals and take the time to think about who’s a smart connection. Most of us don’t know how to hang out with those kinds of people, let alone how to be one. It seems to me that you’re solving both problems. You teach people how to become an alchemist in terms of being able to tap into the network in a meaningful way and then how to find others so that you’re spending time with the right people. That helps your own network, which makes you a better referral.

If you look at the Master Connectors logo that I have, it’s a Buckminster Fuller Geodesic like the Epcot globe. The idea here is, first of all, the triangle is the strongest geometric shape. Geodesics are built out of triangles and the best relationships are three-way. I gain influence when I introduce you to a third party. You’re connected to me. They’re connected to me. You’re connected to them. That strengthens our relationships all the way around. The other thing about a geodesic that is unique is that it is the only geometrical structure that gains strength and durability as it gets taller. That has to do with the fact that it’s round and dome-shaped. The taller it gets, the wider base gets. It makes it more stable.

The key to the whole alchemy piece is being able to hub enough connections that you can get anywhere around the geodesic because you have a point of connection somewhere. I’ve got an alchemy epic fail and then an alchemy epic success. The success story is Rob Goyette was on my show and I asked him, “Who do you want to know?” I make it my business to introduce the people I meet to the people they want to know who do you want to know. He said he wanted to meet John Lee Dumas.

It happened that somebody in my network had coached with him and had presented me to John to have him on my show. It was a brand new show, so I was terrified to have this conversation with John Lee Dumas. I didn’t schedule him. If somebody hands you, John Lee Dumas, on a platter, I don’t care how unprepared you are. He’ll make you look good, just say yes but I didn’t have the confidence to say yes.

I ended up calling Zach, telling him, “I’ve got this guy, Rob. Do you still have a connection?” He said, “I don’t but my friend does because my friend lives in Puerto Rico.” Zach introduced Rob to the friend, the friend introduced Rob to John Lee Dumas, John Lee Dumas introduced Rob to someone at this party and those two inked a massive deal.

It’s like the Kevin Bacon, Six Degrees of Separation in a way.

They say everyone is Six Degrees of Separation and that’s not the case. Dr. Ivan Misner and Michelle Donovan did the research. What they found was that only 29% of people are capable of doing it. It’s based on a study that was done where you had to get a letter to a destination and mail it to someone you knew, then they had to mail it to someone else they knew. Only 29% of the letters arrived at their destination. I imagine that there were letters along the way that could have gotten to the destination but for the apathy of the individual who got the letter. I got the letter but I was apathetic about sending it on to the next person.

Most people are weak in the follow-up. That’s a big distinction I see in particular.

It can be fun for me. It’s an adventure. It takes on this LARPing quality, Live-Action Role Play like, “How can I get to the next step? Who else could I ask? Where could I push? Where could I find it?” For me, it’s going on an epic quest. I won’t work that hard for everybody but I’ll work that hard for people who I think are merit that much activity.

[bctt tweet=”Get a referral engine by planning and tracking. ” username=”John_Livesay”]

It’s like the hero’s journey in a way. There are obstacles along the way but then the stakes are high. Let’s get into what problem you’re solving. What happens to someone’s business if they’re only relying on advertising and they maybe get the occasional a lot of the blue referral but they don’t have a system in place to create that or support that coming?

Generally, they’re stuck not getting any clients. That’s the challenge. Here’s the real truth, John. I’m not against paid traffic, print advertising, television advertising or sponsorship but they all take money because if you’re going to do it, you need to be ubiquitous. In order to do that, there’s this frequency element. It used to be people saw you 3 to 5 times and that was enough. Now it’s 12 to 17.

Somebody needs to see your Facebook ad twelve times before they’re going to click on it. How much money do you need to put behind that? You’ve got to know how to beat the algorithms, know your SEO words, have the right message and AB split test. It’s so overwhelming. I’m a $75,000 a year coach. You don’t have a choice but to use referrals. I have this Referrals On Demand system but it’s the most simple form. I use PETE, it’s an acronym. Meet my friend PETE, Plan, Execute, Track, Evaluate. Without it, you won’t have a consistent revenue stream.

Do you find some people are hesitant to make referrals? Let’s say you’re coach and you got a great client. Maybe they’re embarrassed that they’re even using a coach that they don’t want to tell their friends. I see a lot of people who are financial advisors like, “Any referrals you have?” Let’s say you’re doing a good job, whether you’re somebody’s empathy coach or financial advisor and you want them to send you referrals.

You ask, “Should they be giving referral fees?” What’s the process that you teach because I know you have an upcoming course we want to talk about? I’m trying to identify some problems that you’re helping people solve. Most people are afraid to ask, then they ask and they still don’t get it. They don’t know why. That’s what I see.

There are a couple of things here. Number one, referral fees don’t work, so don’t do it. I’ll give you $25 if you send me your mother. That’s not happening. The only place that it works is in joint venture marketing but that’s a whole other ball of wax. We can talk about that but that involves paying people high dollar cost of client acquisition and the average solo entrepreneur doesn’t even know what client acquisition costs are, let alone how much their cost of client acquisition is. There’s that element of that. What I teach is very relevant to joint venture marketing and it is an essential skillset because if I want you to promote for me, I need to build this relationship with you that has some reciprocal value. Referral fees, in general, don’t work. They will not inspire your clients to refer you.

Second thing, your clients are not going to refer you because you do a bang-up job for them. The idea is like, “If you go to a movie, you tell everybody about it. If you go to a great restaurant, you tell everybody about it.” I’m sorry. No, one’s talking about what a great coach you are on an intentional basis. If someone says, “John, you’re killing it. What happened while I was working with Virginia?” Only if someone notices and asks, “Will your clients do it?” Your clients rarely are going to put their neck on the line, mostly because they often don’t know what to say, how to do it or what to work?

The real money and sustainability are in creating a team of affiliates, ambassadors and advocates that willingly work, out of goodwill, on your behalf because they like who you are. They believe in your worldview, what you’re up to and want to further your cause because they think you’re the man and they want to proliferate that.

Referral Diva: The real sustainability is creating a team of affiliates, ambassadors, and advocates who willingly work on your behalf because they like who you are.

People can tell that when they’re hearing or even reading an email, they can tell whether it’s an authentic connection or not. I believe everything’s energy from a quantum physics standpoint, money’s energy, relationships are energy and trust gets transferred. That’s the thing that most people do not realize. “I got to get you to trust me. Let me show you all the social proof,” look you in the eye and all that other stuff that you need. What you’re offering people is the roadmap to how to get trust transferred. That’s how I would sum you up to somebody.

I would say that to be true and a lot of it has to do with clarity, clarity about who I am, what I want, what I’m up to in the world and my purpose. Why am I here on the planet? What am I here to do? What change am I here to affect? It’s the ability to communicate it clearly.

Clear, concise and compelling are my three Cs. I’m constantly teaching people with their storytelling skills. Let’s double click on the concept of you working with solo entrepreneurs. Can you give us 2 or 3 industries? Are they coaches? If so, what kind of coaches? Are they the guy who owns the dry cleaning business? I don’t think that’s who it is. Who’s your ideal client? Who’s this for?

I’m working with midlife expert entrepreneurs is where that’s coming in. Coaches, consultants and I consider a financial advisor, accountant and attorney. They’re all consultants of some sort. People that are using their expertise to solve problems for others. They’re selling something intangible. It’s easy to be like, “I’m selling magic markers. Do you need a magic marker? A magic marker will suit your needs.”

That’s fine but when you’re talking about things like money, deep dark secrets, transformational journey or whatever that is, you start getting into stuff that people are going to hold tight to the vest in the trust level for that. It’s not just I can buy it at Walmart, think this is crap, throw it in the garbage and buy something at Target. That’s not that easy.

Tell us a little bit about what you have coming up with this program, Referral Engine. Is it an online course?

It’s delivered live. It’s a hybrid coaching program. There’s video support. I’ve got the video modules for the support and then we’ll be meeting once a week for Q&A. We’ll be covering things like how do you align your business with your lifestyle? Most people are building a business and then trying to fit life in. My clients decide on life and then they align their business with that.

It reminds me of some people who have kids and then once the kid arrives, everything revolves around the kid. The parents suddenly lose the time to work out. They don’t see their friends anymore and everything’s about the kid’s life. There are other people who have kids like, “The kid is joining our life. The kid is not our life.” I was like, “What a great distinction.” It doesn’t mean you don’t take your kids to birthday parties but that’s what I hear you saying. Is that a great analogy?

It is. By the way, my two girls are capable of sitting on a bench for four hours and entertaining themselves with their thoughts.

No electronics needed?

[bctt tweet=”Align your business with your lifestyle.” username=”John_Livesay”]

No. My kids grew up in the Game Boy era. It boils down to, “What is it that you want to be doing? What kind of life do you want to be?” It’s, “I know what life I want to be living. With whom do I want to take the journey?” I call it defining your tribe. It’s getting in touch with your values, mission, vision, passion, purpose, the impact that you want to have and who do you want to invite in. Dr. Ivan Misner and Stewart Emery wrote a book called Who’s in Your Room.

It’s up to us to decide who we let in. If we let somebody in by mistake, get them out. It’s so good.

Who’s in Your Room: The Secret to Creating Your Best Life

You can never get them out. Did you know that? Ivan Misner does this. He’s like, “Think of somebody that you kicked out your room.” You said, “Get out of my room.” Did you think of somebody? They’re still in your room. They are still living because they have taken up space in your neural network. Unless you have a frontal lobotomy and you have a cut-out, it’s not going anywhere.

The notion of defining your tribe is, “Who do I psychographically want to take my life’s journey with?” It’s number one. Number two, “How will they know that I get them?” How do we communicate? I’m communicating to you how I see you. What you need to be thinking when I’m talking to you is like, “How did she get in my head?”

That goes back full circle about the importance of listening, being curious and having empathy. When you hear someone express a challenge or a problem they’re having, you can then say, “If you’re having this, I bet there are 100 or 1,000 other people like you.” That becomes part of the concept for your marketing. This whole concept is fascinating of how we communicate and what trust is. Virginia, where can people go to find out more about you and your wonderful program about building this Referral Engine?

You can locate information about the Referral Engine at MasterConnectors.com/ReferralEngine. On the forms there, it says like, “How’d you hear from us?” If you found out about it here, make sure you fill that out and let us know so that John gets brownie points and kisses.

Thank you so much. What a treasure. I love that you’re so passionate. Your daughters are lucky to have you.

Thank you so much, John. I appreciate it.

Important Links

Virginia Muzquiz
Ten by Three
The Alchemist
Rob Goyette – Previous episode on Business by Referral Podcast
Referral Engine
Who’s in Your Room
Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course

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Referral Diva With Virginia Muzquiz

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Referral Diva With Virginia Muzquiz

Important Links

Wanna Host Your Own Podcast?

Purchase John’s new book

John Livesay, The Pitch Whisperer

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