Punching Above Your Weight: Taking Client Engagement To The Next Level With Heath Barnes

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One of the key ingredients to having a successful business is having the right clients. In this episode, Heath Barnes joins host John Livesay to share how he’s going above and beyond when it comes to treating his clients. Heath is the Branch Manager at Cardinal Financial and host of the Mortgages Reimagined podcast. Starting with being a heavy-weight boxing champion while attending Texas A&M, where he graduated with a BBA in Business and Marketing, Heath Barnes has always been punching above his weight. Listen to his interesting journey to entrepreneurship and get tips on treating and engaging your clients to maximize retention and increase referrals.

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Punching Above Your Weight: Taking Client Engagement To The Next Level With Heath Barnes

Our guest is Heath Barnes, who shares with us his unique and creative ways to show client appreciation. You’ll want to read to find out some tips on not only how to have a client appreciation event but then how there are multi-levels to keep the fun going and keep you memorable. Enjoy the episode.

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Our guest is Heath Barnes. He has an interesting story to share with all of you on his entrepreneurial journey. Many real estate agents are struggling to get their buyer’s offers accepted, and many home buyers are frustrated that the loan process is tedious and seemingly endless. I know I felt that way. Heath’s story starts with him being a heavyweight boxing champion while attending Texas A&M, where he graduated with a BBA in Business and Marketing. He has always been punching above his weight. The energy and passion that he exudes for the business he’s in, coupled with his competitive spirit, and are apparent even in his downtime. He has hiked to the summit of the Grand Tetons.

He’s a licensed pilot and a six-time Ironman. He’s a seasoned snowed skier, skydiver, fly-fisherman, sommelier, and even taught himself how to play the piano with a bunch of young kids. He was willing to take classes. Since 2002, he has been a consistent top producer as the Branch Manager for Cardinal Financial, closing over $15 million a year in loan volume.

He’s also the host of a successful podcast called Mortgage Lending Reimagine. Real estate agents love working with him because he works his magic to make their buyers’ offers irresistible. Homebuyers love working with him because the process he has is so streamlined and smooth, which allows them to close on time without the usual stress. Heath, welcome to the show.

Thanks, John. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Let’s go back to your own story of origin. I gave a little bit of the tip of the iceberg there. Maybe start with your days at Texas A&M and how you became such a passionate person about making life an adventure, and then we’ll get into how you got into the mortgage business.

It’s an honor to be here. Going back to A&M, I started at Sam Houston State. I went there because my brother was already there. I didn’t have to stay in the dorm. After two years at Sam Houston, my brother had graduated and I had a girlfriend at the time who had broken up with me and I dropped a lot of classes.

My mom came to visit me and said, “If you are going to make these kinds of grades, you need to do it at a real school.” She made me “move” to Texas A&M. In a way for me to fit in with the fraternity that I was transferring to, I decided to join the boxing team. It was in that endeavor that I found a new talent which was my long reach and dedication to be good at something and I ended up winning the heavyweight champ two years in a row.

That opened up a lot of doors for me. It opened up a door of self-confidence. It opened up a door to a new job at a local bar called The Tap, which is still there at Texas A&M. I became a bartender and my life began to flourish in college. It opened many doors of confidence and meeting other people being a bartender. I love talking about it.

[bctt tweet=”Host a client appreciation party.” username=”John_Livesay”]

My first question around that is how did you pick boxing? It’s not a common sport like baseball, football or basketball. Did you watch somebody on TV? Did somebody take you to a match? How did that get into your awareness?

Our fraternity happened to have a guy that had some experience in coaching boxers. I raised my hand trying to fit in and was dedicated to the workouts, practicing and getting better, which started early in childhood. I was a baseball player. I would spend the summers practicing. I always learned that if you are going to be good at anything, it takes a lot of practice. I knew if I was going to be any good at boxing and not get my face punched, then I would so. I didn’t even know my talent. In my first fight, I knocked the guy out in the first round. There were very few fights in which we got past the second round. Just about every one of my fights was a knockout.

That’s a great analogy there for what you are doing now with mortgages. Almost every one of your deals is a knockout. You also talked about the long reach of competitiveness. You are in a competitive field. I understand there’s a story of a very special relative that you saw in the mortgage business that made you want to mirror that. Sometimes we see a dad and go, “I want to follow my dad’s footprints. I don’t want to do that. My dad doesn’t look like he’s having a lot of fun.” Tell us a little bit about who influenced you to get into the mortgage biz? What did you see that he was doing that you wanted to do it?

It’s funny because it’s come full circle because I rehired my actual Uncle Larry, who got me in the business. In the beginning, in 1999, I was in the mobile home business. I remember going to a closing. In a mobile home business, you have two opportunities when you are getting financing. One is to finance the mobile home, which is called a chattel loan or a regular loan, which is not done by a mortgage company.

The second type of loan is what they call a land home package, where you are financing the home with the land. I was sitting at the closing table and I looked at the closing disclosure. I saw how much money the mortgage guy was making. I thought, “I might be in the wrong business.” I remember my grandmother telling me that my Uncle Larry was in the mortgage business. I called him. He flew down. We had a conversation and the next thing you know, I’m doing mortgages. I have never looked back.

If you had to give our audience a tip about breaking into a field that’s competitive and crowded. I talk about it in terms of a lot of people feeling like they are drowning in a sea of sameness. Everyone says, “Doesn’t everyone have access to the same loans? Isn’t the process the same?” What I found over the years of buying and selling homes, but mostly qualifying for the loan and the offers, there are a lot of nuance and differences in a strategy to put through to get your offer to stand out against all the other offers. I think a lot of real estate agents probably think of you as their secret weapon. Would that be fair to say?

For sure, as far as in this market, which if you are not familiar with, is a highly competitive market, especially if you are a buyer, and getting your offer accepted is not about necessarily having the highest price, but it’s having the right team, whether it’s our experienced real estate agent or a loan officer. Our strategy has been how we remove as many contingencies as possible to separate ourselves, so financing contingency.

The way we take the stress out of financing is by having a good interview with the clients and letting them know what’s going on in the market. The second step is getting them completely through the underwriting process because if you are completely through the underwriting process, the stress of getting the loan goes away. The stress of getting a loan is increased when you have something to lose.

Client Engagement: If you’re going to be good at anything, it takes a lot of practice.

If you are not out looking for a house, there’s no stress of losing something. There’s nothing to lose. There’s nothing to lose in the beginning when you don’t have a home. That’s the time you want to go through underwriting. The old way of doing things in the mortgage business has been you wait until they find a home because you want to make sure that your time is spent wisely that they are going to find a home. We said, “We are going to take it a step further. We are going to take the stress out by moving them completely through that process.” That way, when they go out into the market, there’s no fear about securing a mortgage, and you know exactly what they qualify for, and all the paperwork is done.

Reduce stress for your buyer, and that’s true in any business. If you can make the buying process, stress-free or less stress, then that’s going to make you stand out. We are going to reverse engineer this and then we’ll start at the beginning. You now have a very big group of people who’ve worked with you, trust and like you, and send you referrals. We are going to get to how you built that. What are you doing now to make those people feel seen, heard and appreciated? What did you do that was so timely that I thought was memorable and part of your personality? These are the things that make you stand out against your competitors.

I’m always thanking both the people that refer me business but also my clients. How can I provide an enormous amount of value where they would want to continue to do business with me? We do apply for appreciation parties a couple of times a year. We have made it a habit of renting out an entire movie theater and making it fun for previous clients.

We rented out a theater and we invited our top 100 clients or the first 100 that responded to the premiere of Top Gun. I took it a step further by borrowing my friend Jack Swanson’s flight suit and I bought some aviator glasses. I was fully dressed up for the experience. The look on people’s faces when they came into the theater thinking they were just going to see a movie about the sequel of Top Gun. That was my first experience with it.

Life is all about experience and how you make people feel, even in the stories that you tell. I’m trying to bring them into the experience so that when they leave, they are going to be thinking about me moving forward, especially if it’s going to be a memorable movie. What comes up for me now also is like in life, if you are an entrepreneur, it’s utilization. How do you use everything to your advantage, no matter what’s happening? What’s interesting about this experience was I had a dialogue with the movie theater and I said, “Before you start the movie, what I’d like you to do is stop it so that I can share a few announcements. I got a special treat for everyone.”

All the preparation of making sure there’s a mic and making sure we talk to everyone, and then the time comes. At the beginning of the movie, if you see it, Tom Cruise starts to talk and has a special message. They stopped it after that special message. I used that and I said, “Most of you all don’t know but I’m personal friends with Tom Cruise. That’s a personal message for you all. Thank you all for listening.”

The next thing that happened was I was in the middle of thanking all the people that had attended, the people that made this possible, and the mic went out. I thought, “How do I use this to my advantage?” I said, “I’m just going to continue.” I kept the mic in hand and ended up thanking everyone. I then turned around. I said, “One more thing,” and started out singing, “You never close your eyes.” It was a huge hit because I got out of my comfort zone. Everything inside of me was saying, “Don’t do this. Don’t embarrass yourself,” but I went through with it. My wife was like, “I was proud of you.” It made a big impression on everyone.

Let’s unpack that because it’s such a great strategy that you have a client appreciation party scheduled on a regular basis. What separates you from 90% of the people. What makes you in the 1% of that experience is you took the time to dress up. Automatically people go, “This is fun.” The fun starts before the movie starts.

[bctt tweet=”Reduce stress for your buyers.” username=”John_Livesay”]

You are exceeding the expectations, and then you surprise them by singing, which they didn’t expect. If you are willing to be vulnerable and out of your comfort zone, that’s endearing because that is an emotional bond with people. You feel safe enough with them, and you trust them to not make you feel stupid, and so you are building trust in a very subtle subconscious way.

You did one more thing that is brilliant because I have seen the video, which is you took it a step further for people who are fans and said, “I have got $50 gift certificates for the people who can shout out a quote from the first movie.” Now everyone is immersed in the experience. The audience involvement in a dark theater is tricky and you figured out a way to do it, and people are shouting out the quotes. I don’t know if you consciously did this or not, but what I love about the choice of this movie for you is you are the wingman for the agents and the home buyers.

That’s a perfect brand for you to be in the movie, for you to be identified, especially if you are dressed up in the costume or uniform of it. On some level, people are thinking, “Not only was that fun, but he is our wingman.” You can then email all of them and say, “What was your favorite quote from this new movie? I look forward to being your wingman on the next deal.” It allows you to have some momentum and a follow-up where you are not actually pitching.

I’m going to use that, “I’m your wingman,” and follow up with everyone. I’m going to use that moving forward. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

It’s my pleasure. When you exhibit some creativity and start giving people an experience, they can then repeat that story. That’s the big takeaway for people, whether it’s a client appreciation story or a story of how you help somebody get a deal accepted in a way that is unique. That’s what generates referrals. For people that are looking for new ways to over-deliver service and things, do you have any structured way of either acknowledging and rewarding referrals or encouraging referrals beyond the, “I appreciate your referrals?”

I was taught several years ago by a coach of mine. I remember when I first got into the business, I didn’t want anyone telling me what to do. I spent the first nine years of my career wanting to do it on my own until I realized that there was no original idea per se. That’s when I started getting some coaching. One of the first habits that they pounded into our heads was to acknowledge people for the action, not the results. For the people that are reading, writing a note is a great way.

It will allow you to stand out like writing a handwritten note, not when the transaction is complete but when the action is given. You are rewarding the action. Anytime a person calls me and says, “I have a friend of mine who could use your help,” they give me a name and a phone number, my next action is writing a handwritten note and then dropping in a little $5 Starbucks, and sending that to them. I’m promoting the action, not the result.

That makes people much more likely to keep it coming because you are like, “If you only appreciate it if the person hires me or uses me for their loan, then the odds are much less.” Also, in a world of everything being digital with texts and emails, to go old school and take the time to send a handwritten note makes you stand out from the sea of sameness. Tell us about your podcast. Mortgage Lending Reimagine. How did you come up with the title?

Client Engagement: It’s not necessarily about having the highest price, but it’s having the right team.

The way I came up with the title is it’s for loan officers. It’s for entrepreneurs. It’s thinking of your business in a new way, rather than a new way of thinking about money or a new way of thinking about how you engage with your clients or a new way of thinking about how you engage with the world around you. For you to be relevant, you’ve always got to be shifting and changing into how you are going to provide value.

That’s the focus as a loan officer moving forward. The one thing that most people have a hard time with is changing. We get set in our ways. The one thing in life that is most predictable is that things are always going to change. They change every day. The more you look at that change and say, “This is happening for me,” and see it as a positive way to move your life forward rather than backward. You’ll be able to reimagine yourself and your life in a different way.

Can you tell us a story of a strategy you used where someone had the cash to make an all-cash offer? After the offer was accepted, you were able to say, “You may not want to have all your cash tied up like that. We can offer some financing. Your offer came through because it was cash only.” The seller is confident that you have all the money and there’s not going to be any contingencies, but maybe you want some of the deductions or there are a lot of other ways going on behind that. I don’t think a lot of people are aware of that strategy. How did you come up with doing that? Do you see a lot of people taking advantage of it?

The way I came up with this strategy, not everything, I came up with. I got it from someone else years ago. In these markets, you have to be more creative and have your offer accepted. Whenever I meet with the client looking at their financing, I’m always thinking, “How do I put them in the best position, not only to secure a mortgage but also to get their offer accepted?” If they have enough cash in the bank, the first thing I always mention to them is to look at submitting a cash offer. There’s a space in at least the Texas contracts that are called special provisions.

You submit a cash offer and this special provision is written in that the client has the ability to change their financing and put more or less money down, as long as it doesn’t delay the closing. By doing that, you are putting yourself at the front of the pack by having the opportunity to either pay cash, which is probably not a good idea in this environment to pay cash, and I will explain why in a minute. You can make sure that you are going to secure that offer. In this competitive environment, you need to be able to be at the front of the pack.

What is wrong with an all-cash offer?

The one thing to think about when it comes to financing your money is where inflation is. Right now, the government says it’s at 8.5%. I tend to think that’s probably the best number they can prove. It’s probably more like 15%. If inflation is 15% and interest rates are 5%, that’s 10% below inflation. That means you want to borrow more money because money’s going to be worth less in the future. You take that extra cash and move it into some type of commodities like another house, gold, silver or something that’s going to hold the value of your money. Inflation is the government stealing your money out of your pocket without you even knowing it.

I have never heard that before. I think that’s very memorable. There are three parts that most entrepreneurs forget in terms of growing their business. First of all, you are not restricted to just helping people in Texas. You can help anybody in the country, correct?

[bctt tweet=”Life is all about experience and how you make people feel, even in the stories that you tell.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Correct. All over the country.

A lot of people don’t realize that that’s even possible. They think, “We’ll have to work with somebody local.” That’s a big a-ha for people. The second part is you have to spend some time attracting clients. You have to spend some time converting them. The conversations you have for why someone should pick you versus another person who does what you do, and then finally, you have to deliver. That’s a lot of time and energy.

Most people get so caught up in the delivery aspect of their job, that they are putting out fires and dealing with details, and then they go, “I haven’t spent any time getting new leads or I’m not having that many sales conversations.” You’ve been doing this for a long time. You are at the top of your game. Do you still spend time cold calling or do you not do it?

Yes, totally.

That’s a big surprise. I know that about you and I was impressed that you do. I want to have you talk about why you still do that? Most people think, “I hate it and I will do it until I don’t have to do it anymore, and then I will live on referrals.” You are like, “I’m going to still keep reaching out.”

It still keeps me sharp in the game. It still keeps me in a creative mode. It still keeps the challenge there for me. I have on my calendar every day one hour of outbound prospecting, where I’m calling people that are already sending me business like real estate agents or calling my previous clients for one hour. I’m calling old leads, new leads or cold calling. It’s the same time every day, every week.

It’s that discipline from your sports background applied here, which is great. When you say calling, I want to clarify, you literally mean picking up the phone, not just sending an email. Those are a lot of things that most people don’t feel comfortable doing. They are like, “Nobody wants a phone call. Nobody answers their phone.” You are like, “No, I’m still leaving a message.”

I’m not leaving a message. If I’m cold calling, I’m calling and I’m saying, “Heath Barnes, Cardinal Financial, give me a call when you have a few minutes. I got a couple of questions for you.” They are calling me and it gives me the opportunity to engage in a conversation. The more conversations you have if you are an entrepreneur, the more likely you are to be successful.

Client Engagement: If you’re an entrepreneur, it’s utilization. How do you use everything to your advantage, no matter what’s happening?

How fascinating that they are like, “What in the world questions would he have for me?” You are asking questions about their needs and how things are going. If you find out something, you could help them with possibly, “Are you frustrated that your offers aren’t coming through all the time. Are your buyers complaining to you about how tedious the process is? I can fix that for you and make you look like a hero to your client.” Now you are having a conversation that people want to have. What’s one quote or a book you would recommend to our readers before we say goodbye that you think would help people in their mindset?

One of my favorite books is a book called Reinventing Yourself by Steve Chandler. I’m reading it for the second time, coaching a friend of mine. One of my coaches is Todd Musselman out of Colorado. He recommended it to me. What was evident in that book is we are always reinventing ourselves. There are so many great reminders about life and how we get to show up. It’s a great book. I love it.

If people want to find out more about you, get a quote from you or find out more about the show, what’s the best way that they could track you down?

They can go to my website HeathBarnes.com, or call me on my cell phone at (832) 771-8194.

Heath, thank you so much for telling us about your story of how you are not only not drowning in a sea of sameness but creating memorable experiences for those people who do have the pleasure of working with you.

Thank you, John. I enjoyed your book as well. Thanks for having me.

Important Links

• Heath Barnes
• Cardinal Financial
• Reinventing Yourself
• Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course

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