Who’s In Your Room? With Dr. Ivan Misner

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When times are tough, you have to hold on to your network and build it like you have never done before. How mindful are you about who you let into your life and career? In this episode, Dr. Ivan Misner, the author of Who’s in Your Room, joins John Livesay to talk about curating the people you associate yourself with. Get to know Ivan’s story of origin as he shares his journey and how he started his whole process from his Brody moment to the success he has achieved so far. John and Ivan discuss the importance of serving your customers first before pitching and how networking can carry you through tough times. Tune in and learn how you can leverage your network more than ever and turn your fear into hope and focus.

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Who’s In Your Room? With Dr. Ivan Misner

Our guest is Dr. Ivan Misner, the author of Who’s In Your Room? He said, “We let a lot of people into our room or our life without curating who’s in there.” He also talks about the importance of when you’re networking, don’t pitch people, serve them first. Finally, he said, “You either get frozen by fear or focused by it.” Enjoy the episode.

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Our guest is Dr. Ivan Misner, the Founder and Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, which is the world’s largest business networking organization. It was founded back in 1985. Now, it has over 10,000 chapters around the world. It’s generated over 11.5 million referrals which results in over $16 billion worth of business for its members. Dr. Misner is from the University of Southern California and a New York Times bestselling author. One of his latest books and also one of my favorites is Who’s In Your Room? He’s been called the Father of Modern Networking by both Forbes and CNN. Welcome to the show.

Thanks, John. I’m glad they’re not calling me the grandfather yet.

I’ve had the Father of Corporate Culture on, Larry Senn. There’s a lot to be learned from people over a certain age with a great experience.

That’s where I am. I’m over that certain age. I’m totally gray-haired. I’m okay with that. I’m just glad I still have hair.

There’s always something to be grateful for. I like to ask my guests their own stories of origin. You can go back to childhood or school. Were you always somebody outgoing, friendly and liking to make friends? How did you start this whole process?

I’m an introvert who is a situational extrovert. In and of itself is a long story. I was not necessarily outgoing in school. I grew up in a low middle-class income community. I was able to get a 50% scholarship to Occidental College, but I couldn’t afford the other 50%. I went to community college and then I went to a state university in California. I did my graduate school both my Master’s and Doctorate at USC. All three schools were very good. Anybody that wants to learn community college can be fantastic. It was good for me. I have a lot of great experiences from that. That’s what led me into the business world.

You decided to get your PhD in Organizational Behavior. What was it about the way people behaved in either networking or hierarchy or any of those that intrigued you the most? There’s so much out there now about this concept of research on this. I’m fascinated that you were one of the forefront of looking at this.

[bctt tweet=”When times are tough, that is the worst time to abandon your network. You need your network today more than ever. ” username=”John Livesay”]

My two areas of focus were Organizational Behavior and Leadership. Warren Bennis, who was the world’s leading expert on leadership in his days, was on my doctoral committee. If you’re ever going for a doctoral degree, don’t put the world’s leading experts on your panel because no matter what your answer is, it will never be acceptable. I did learn a lot from Warren. He was an amazing mentor.

I know that he’s a mentor of Dr. Mark Goulston, who’s also been a guest on the show that connected us.

He and Mark are good friends. I met Mark at an event with Warren Bennis. It was a storytelling event done by Peter Guber, who wrote a book on storytelling. Mark, Warren and I were there along with many other people. I enjoyed my education and I learned a lot about Organizational Behavior. I had a couple of jobs and became a business consultant. I found that you can’t get business through advertisement. It has to be referrals and word of mouth. I created one networking group. I had this vision of an international organization, but I just wanted one group. I wanted to give referrals to my friends and I hope that they would be willing to do the same and we did. In BNI, we only take one person per profession.

Someone came to me in the first couple of months and said, “This is amazing. I can get a ton of business. Would you help me open up my own group?” I said, “No, this isn’t what I do. I’m a business consultant. I don’t run a network.” She said, “This is kind of consulting. You’re helping me build my business.” That’s a stretch. I opened the second group. We had two people who couldn’t join because we only take one person per profession and the professional was represented. They said, “This is great. Would you help us to open up a chapter?” I said, “No, this isn’t what I do.”

They kept pulling you in.

They did. At the end of that year, I had twenty chapters without trying. That was my Brody moment. Do you remember the movie Jaws? Brody was the sheriff. There was a point where he’s on the boat and he looks to the captain and says, “We’re going to need a bigger boat.” My Brody moment was in December between Christmas and New Year’s. I always take time off to reflect and to look to what I want to do in the future. That’s when I realized this was going to be a lot bigger than I expected. You have pushed marketing where you’re pushing and trying to make sales. You pull marketing where you’re getting pulled through the marketplace. I was being pulled through the marketplace and I recognized it. That’s when I decided to create a plan to scale the organization. We now have over 10,000 chapters in more than 70 countries around the world. We pivoted through COVID and moved 10,000 in-person weekly meetings to 10,000 weekly online meetings. It saved the company. More importantly, it saved hundreds of thousands of businesses because we did $16 billion in business during the middle of COVID, which is amazing to me.

Do you find that with a virtual world and quarantine and all those things, that the need to network is even more important than ever?

You need your network now more than ever. When times are tough, that is the worst time to abandon your network. I saw people do it, “These are tough. I’m going to step out.” What’s wrong with you? This is when you need your network more than ever. There are people who are joining BNI now because they haven’t built a network and need to expedite the process of building their network. When times are tough, you need your network more than ever. I’ve been through multiple recessions. I had started this in ‘85. I have found over the years that people either get frozen by fear or focused by fear.

We’re going to make that a tweet. Either you get frozen by fear or focused by it.

We live in fearful times. The ones who get focused by fear are the ones who succeed. That begins with having hope. Hope is more powerful than fear. Hope plus a plan and action will lead you to success. That’s what we try to do in BNI. We start with giving people hope, a plan and helping them take action so that they can generate business during crazy times like we live in now.

Is there one mistake that you see a lot of people making? Ivan, I specialize in helping people tell stories and even an elevator pitch to me is a small story. I see a lot of people making mistakes on that as part of a networking thing. It’s not having a good elevator pitch story, whatever you want to call it. I’m also curious to see all the experiences you have. Are there some things that people should avoid doing when they’re networking?

Let me bifurcate that question into things that I see businesses do wrong in general, and then talk about the elevator pitch. If you want to be successful in business, you have to do 6 things 1,000 times, not 1,000 things 6 times. All too often, I see business people who are doing 1,000 things 6 times. They keep chasing bright, shiny objects instead of doing what they know works because they have mentors. They’re listening to shows like this where there are people who are giving them advice and they don’t listen to it. They jump around. Find things that resonate with you, and then do 6 things 1,000 times. It doesn’t have to be 6, it could be 5, 7, but it’s doing a handful of things and doing them 1,000 times. If I have any superpower at all as a business person, it is that I am a dog with a bone. I am incredibly persistent. I’m a real believer in doing 6 things 1,000 times. That’s the biggest mistake I see.

My best advice for people in terms of doing an elevator pitch is don’t pitch, instead serve. It may mean don’t sell them something instead, help them make a referral or a connection. I believe it’s better to be a master connector than just having a good pitch for your business. If you’re a master connector, you’ll be able to do your pitch. First, you invest in social capital. It is a lot like financial capital. Banks have this crazy idea that you have to put money in an account before you write a check. Social capital is very much the same. What happens is people try to make a withdrawal without making any investment. The thing to do is to first serve. Find a way to help someone, then you can tell people what it is you do, and they’re much more willing to listen and help you.

You make yourself memorable because you understand enough about their story and their business to be able to give their elevator pitch for them to make those meaningful master connections.

Especially if you’re networking up. When you’re talking to successful people, everybody and their mother pitches them. Don’t be one of the crowd. Instead, find a way to help them. I’ve been lucky enough to meet Richard Branson on a number of occasions. I’ve spent a week on Necker Island three times. I’ve been there multiple times, which is his private island. The last two times I was there, I wanted to do a video with Richard for my blog, but I didn’t want to be one of those guys that went, “Richard, would you do a video with me please?” What I did was I went there prepared, looking for things that he was interested in.

The first time we did the video I found that he was talking a lot on social media about The B Team, Business Team. The business can make a difference. The business can be noble or the business should be about people, planet and profit. When I saw him, I said, “Tell me about The B Team. I find that interesting. I read some of your stuff on the internet.” He lit up. He was excited talking about The B Team. I then said to him, “Richard, how can I help you get the word out for this concept? I think it’s brilliant.” He’s like, “You’ve run this network. Maybe you can let your members know.” I’m like, “I’d be happy to. Would you like to do a video? Would that help you?” He said, “That would be great.”

[bctt tweet=”When networking, serve, don’t pitch. ” username=”John Livesay”]

It’s a different angle. Instead of what’s in it for you, “Would it be helpful for you, Richard, if I did this video promoting what you are passionate about?” That’s such a huge distinction, Ivan.

It is and he could have said no.

He could have said, “I don’t need that,” or start quizzing you on how many people are going to see this. The fact is at that level, they’re not trying to prove anything to anybody else, nor are they trying to put anybody else on the spot and make other people feel less than for the most part.

I’ve spent enough time with him and that totally defines him. He is an amazing human being. I thought he would say yes, but he could have said no. The bottom line was I wasn’t pitching him anything. I was willing to serve. Another one when I went back in 2020, we did it again on a different topic. It was all about promoting him and his stuff, which didn’t hurt me but it also served him.

You’ve got momentum. Once you get in the door, the first video, then the second video, the precedent has been set as they say and they trust you, like you and all that good stuff.

We did a third video and you’ll crack up with this. I did a video with Jordan Adler who’s with SendOutCards. He is the main guy there.

I know that company well.

Jordan is a wonderful guy. We asked Richard, “Richard, would you be willing to walk behind us as we’re doing an interview like you just walk by?”

It’s like the cameo like, “I don’t expect to pull into the video.”

He said, “I’d be happy to do that.” If you go to my blog and look for Jordan Adler, you’ll see a video of Jordan and I. We’re talking very animated. Richard Branson walks by, looks at the camera, turns and continues to walk. It was a total setup. Jordan and I were like, “Was that? No.”

People love that kind of stuff because it’s a good story. That unexpected element is what makes a good story. An unexpected element like Richard Branson walking by makes people pull in and then share the video. It’s very clever that it gets to be playful at that level. I love that willingness for someone to give an unspoken endorsement by agreeing to be at it, but it’s his whole brand. I was fortunate enough to be able to fly Virgin to a friend’s wedding in South Africa. You go from LA to London and down there. You cannot believe the attention to detail, from notepads in the lounge to showers and giving massages. I’ve never experienced anything like it all done through a playful lens. It’s not taking itself too seriously, which he doesn’t do either as a person. That’s what is a real big takeaway on this concept that you’re talking about is you need to be your brand to some level and you need to be authentic. You can’t be this stuffy, boring person, and then try to create a brand full of fun and adventure if you’re not like that. He is like that.

I think it backfires on you. When your ego enters the room before you, that catches up with you. His does not.

 

I remember the first time your wonderful book came on my radar and I was riveted. First of all, the concept of the name, Who’s In Your Room? It made me step back and think what an amazing question. I’ve never thought of it like that. My first question is, how did you come up with this title? I know books go through all kinds of choices of titles and book covers. What’s the story of origin on the title of Who’s In Your Room?

That was the first title. It was obvious to us that that was the title. Stewart Emery, my co-author, came up with that title. It was the perfect title. For those of you who haven’t read it, imagine you live your life in one room that has only one door. That one door is an enter-only door so that when people come into your room or into your life, they’re there forever. You’ll never get them out. Luckily, it’s a metaphor, but if it were true, John, would you be more selective about the people that you let into your life?

Yes. After all of us going through quarantine, we have a sense of what that is. We’re much more aware of who’s in our room.

Here’s our argument. We believe it’s more than a metaphor. If you’re reading this, I want you to think of someone you got out of your life. People say to me, “It’s not true. You can get people out of your life.” I want you to think, John, of somebody that you got out of your life. If you’re reading this, I want you to think of somebody that you got out of your life. I’m not going to ask you to name who it is, John, but I want you to think of somebody and why you wanted them out of your life. What was it that they did that made you angry? Do you have a name in your mind?

I do indeed.

I want you to think of a situation that made you angry with that person. They’re still in your head. They’re still in your room and they will be for the rest of your life. For those of you who are reading this, I want you to take your right index finger, put it on your right temple. Your left index finger, put it on your left temple. Your room is everything in between. It’s your head and the relationships that you have. We interviewed Dr. Daniel Amen who’s a psychiatrist and neuroscientist. He said, “When you have a personal or professional relationship with somebody, their fingerprints are all over your brain for the rest of your life.”

Why do we give them free rents? That’s another way of looking at it.

The whole book is about how you need to be more selective about the people that you let into your life. How do you deal with the people that have come into your life before you understood this concept or the people that you had no choice over like family members? It’s very hands-on. Here are specific things that you need to do in order to create the room of your dreams, to curate your room.

[bctt tweet=”Social capital requires deposits. ” username=”John Livesay”]

When I was younger and I would get a call from a recruiter or another company like, “We’d like to interview you.” My ego was so flattered that I would be like, “Really?” Even if it may not be the right job for me, and sometimes people have come into my life going, “I like to be your friend.” I’m like, “Really?” There wasn’t a lot of curating going on. You realize, “Wait a minute.” The whole premise was not curated properly. It’s not that we become defensive or hard to get to know or any of that. It is a sense of defining what the criteria is and earn the space to get into the room.

That space is about your values. You need to get good with your values and know what they are. When I ask people, “Give me your top seven values,” it’s deer in the headlights. They’re like, “Honesty.” “That’s great. Give me six more,” and they’re stumped. You’ve got to get good with your values. Your values don’t have to be the same as someone else’s, but they can’t be dissonant and incongruent. In the book, we have an instrument that you can use to determine your values, but there’s a lot of stuff online as well that comes to grips with what your values are, but the place to start is with deal-breakers.

It’s like dating, “I don’t date a smoker,” or whatever.

I am going to put you on the spot with this because it’s an easy one. Give me a deal-breaker of yours that you have in terms of a business or a professional relationship with somebody. What’s a deal-breaker that you don’t do business with them?

If they don’t have integrity.

That’s a great deal-breaker. For me, it was drama. People who are dripping in drama. We all have drama. I and most people have drama. I mean people that are dripping in drama.

It’s like, “You’re standing in those lanes.”

When Stewart was talking to me about this concept and I thought that drama was mine, I realized I had several people in my room who were full of drama. I knew they had drama but I let them in because I thought I could deal with the drama, but I didn’t recognize that other people didn’t want to deal with that. Even though they were qualified to do it, other people didn’t want to deal with it. It created chaos in my organization. Now that I understand deal-breakers and values, I’m much more careful about who I allow into my room.

 

Do you think our values get formed at a very young age? For me, this concept of growing up in the Midwest of if you say you’re going to do something, you do it and show up on time. All of that stuff was modeled for me by my parents and everything I have. That’s how I operate. That’s my operating system. When I see people who don’t do that, it’s not only surprising, but that’s what’s made it a deal-breaker. I realized that isn’t the case for everyone. They say they’re going to do something but if something else better comes along, then they’ll blow you. I’m like, “What?” There are lots of ways to be out of integrity. You can see it in the business world. If you promise something and you don’t deliver it, it goes on and on. Do you think our values have formed at childhood or do we make them up as we get older?

Many of them are formed in childhood. We do acquire others as we grow older. Some of us rebel against the values or the modeling that was given to us. My father is a great example. His father was not a good father. He would physically hit people. My father rebelled with that. He said, “I am not going to be that man.” He was in the Army. He was behind enemy lines. He had done hand-to-hand combat. He was very good with physical strength and ability, but he refused to be like his father.

Sometimes, someone’s a great role model of what not to do.

That was my point is that you do acquire a lot of your values when you’re young by saying, “Yes, I like that. That resonates with me,” or “No, that’s not who I want to be.” It could go either direction. The problem is it’s modeled and people think that’s the only way they have to be.

With the onslaught of social media, I don’t think a lot of people think of that in terms of the room. As you said, between our fingers is our brain and we are deciding what newsfeeds and who we’re following and all that stuff. That’s also part of who’s in our room.

It’s a huge part and people don’t understand that. One of the things I’ve been saying for more than a year is micro-dose the news. The news is no longer the news. When I grow up, Walter Cronkite would give you the news. When he was giving you his opinion, there would be this thing across the bottom of the screen that said, “This is the opinion of the host.” Now it doesn’t matter what station you go to. What you hear is the opinions layered in between with the news. If you watch one news station, you get a completely different perspective than watching another one. I tell people to micro-dose the news. I no longer watch the news. I use news apps. I will pull up an app and I will look at what I want to see. Generally, I go to a conservative page and a liberal page, then international, BBC. Between the three, I get a sense of what the reality might be. I don’t watch the news anymore because it’s all the opinions, not the news.

Any last thoughts or words of advice you have for us on how to live a better life. Who we let into our room is a big secret to living a better life, having our values defined, giving before taking, there are so many great nuggets you gave us. I thought if there’s any last one thing you want to leave us with.

Do you want to know the secret to balance in life because this is in a book? Forget about balance. We look at the balance, like scales, our business has to be in balance with our personal life, spirituality, and health. I don’t think balance is possible, but I’ll tell you what I think is possible. We can have a life of harmony and that’s different than balanced. Even the graphic for harmony, the yin and the yang are out of balance if you pull them apart. You can have a life of harmony. I have not led a life of balance, but I have led a life of harmony. I’ll give you two techniques to use for harmony. One is be here now. Wherever you are, be there. Don’t be at work thinking about the fact that you didn’t spend time with the family. Don’t be with the family thinking about that project that has to be done at work.

The second one is you have to learn to both let go and hold on. Contrary to popular belief, you can’t have it all. You have to learn how to let go of things that aren’t part of your values. If it’s not congruent with your values, let it go. Those things that are congruent with your values, hold on to for dear life. There are 4 or 5 other techniques that help create a life of harmony. Just looking at it that way makes a lot of business people feel like, “I can do that.” I may not have a balanced life, but I can have a life of harmony. I have led a life of harmony.

What a great statement to make about your life at any age. The book is Who’s In Your Room? The author of the wonderful Dr. Ivan Misner. Thank you so much for joining us and for bringing your wonderful insights and energy.

Thanks, John.

 

Important Links

• Who’s In Your Room?
• BNI.com
• Larry Senn – Past Episode
• Dr. Mark Goulston – Past Episode
• Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course

 

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Tags: curating people, Focus, Hope, hope versus fear, overcoming fear, power of networking