Master Storytelling With Mark Carpenter

Posted by John Livesay in podcast0 comments

 

Storytelling is about painting a picture that people can see themselves in. It has to be relatable, and it needs to have a purpose. If your story has no point, you’re just wasting the listener’s time. Storytelling is about being vulnerable and building trust. If you’re listening to a story and you can relate to it, you feel like you can trust the storyteller even more. That is the power of storytelling and why you need to master it.

Join John Livesay as he talks to Mark Carpenter about how to tell an effective and relatable story. Mark Carpenter is a serial storyteller. He is also an author, speaker, and the owner of the Mindset Strategic Leadership. Learn why your story needs a point and an emotional reaction. Find out more about the trust hormone, oxytocin. Discover how you can paint a picture for people when telling stories. Master the art of storytelling today!

—

Listen to the podcast here

 

Master Storytelling With Mark Carpenter

Our guest on the show is Mark Carpenter, the author of Master Storytelling. We talk about how important it is to give enough detail in a story that people see themselves in it, the importance of showing vulnerability and how that builds trust. Enjoy the episode.

—

I don’t know if it was first a passion for storytelling. For me, it was my survival instinct. I was the fourth of five children. This was my way to get attention but I also grew up in a family of teachers. I realized that the best teachers that I ever had were those that taught in stories. I’ve had history teachers who gave you facts, figures, dates and information. It was hard to stay awake but the teachers who told the story of history were who I could pay attention to.

I started my career in public relations and marketing communications, where I was doing a lot of writing and communicating. I realized it’s the story that gets people’s attention. That transitioned into my career, which is more around facilitation, speaking, coaching and consulting. It’s the stories that make the impact. The stories help people remember and relate to you better.

I wouldn’t go so much as in the industry as I would categories within the industry. People in sales are an audience I know that you work with regularly, emerging leaders and entrepreneurs. Particularly first-time leaders feel like, “I have to show I’m the boss, get up here and give the corporate pitch line.” If they can make themselves more relatable to their teams, they’re going to be a more effective leader.

I love that you use the words know, trust and like. This is one of the pushbacks I get all the time. People in leadership positions want to be the hero of their stories. That makes them less relatable. As we put a little bit of vulnerability up there, show times that we stumbled and how we recover from that stumble, we’re more relatable.

Part of the reason it makes it relatable is if I can be vulnerable to my audience, it shows that I trust them to accept my vulnerability and learn with me the things that I learned in those times that I made mistakes. When you tell a story that people can relate to, that increases oxytocin in the listener’s brain. This is based on research done by Dr. Paul Zak at Claremont Graduate College. Oxytocin is known as the trust hormone. If I’m listening to you and I can relate to the experience you’re telling, suddenly I trust you more. Why do I trust you more? There’s that increase in the brain chemistry of oxytocin in our brains that helps me feel like, “This is someone I can trust and relate to.”

Isn’t that also some of the chemicals that get released when you’re falling in love, eat chocolate or things like that? That’s why those dating shows have these people do all these crazy things like, “Let’s bungee jump together.” All these chemicals will be released. You’ll assume you’re falling in love with the person where it’s your body going, “This is new. I’m excited about the experience or being with you.” You’d tie the two together. Is that accurate?

Maybe lollipops aren’t your thing. Maybe it’s a lender truffle or something like that but it gives you that same satisfying feeling.

[bctt tweet=”Paint a picture people see themselves in.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Storytelling is the lollipop for the brain. I like that so much because it’s visual. We use an analogy and a metaphor and give people a visual to associate with. I was working with a client and I said, “It sounds to me like you’re the air traffic controller of this project. You’re preventing a lot of mistakes from happening before they happen.” They go, “I guess I am.” I said, “Let’s say that in the presentation so that people have a hook to think of you in terms of the whole project, ‘I know what you do.’” That’s what the lollipop does.

I was talking to somebody and they said, “How about visuals? Pictures are worth 1,000 words. Shouldn’t you use visuals with your stories to tell them?” This is sometimes why when we’re trying to share information, we use charts and graphs because we think those visuals are going to tell the story. A well-told story allows people to create images in their heads. If we can give enough vivid details, they’re painting their picture. That’s more powerful than an image that we can project to them.

Let’s pause, underline, circle, double click and whatever else we have to know. There’s one thing to get people to tell a story in the first place where you’re painting a picture. What I hear you saying is when you use a visual image, that is people’s starting point to create the rest of the picture for themselves.

They will focus on the image because the image is easier. The image is going to create other information in their heads. It’s going to connect back to things that have happened in their life. If you can paint that word picture for them, all of a sudden, they put themselves in the seat that you were in.

Yes, because our brain likes closure. Open loops are so good for a story. Even when you see somebody’s head cut off in a picture, our brain completes the picture. If you give us a starting point of a picture with an image like a lollipop, it was like, “It’s sweet. I remember when I had a lollipop.” It pulls people in. There are so many things that we could start making up around that. Let’s talk about an open-loop technique in a story. You have three mistakes that you can give us. I’m wondering if 1 of those 3 mistakes is not having an open loop but I’ll let you take it from there.

This ties to what we’re talking about in terms of helping people paint a picture in their brains. One of the first mistakes is we forget that the story is not about you as the teller. It’s about your audience as the listeners and the lesson that you’re teaching from this story. We get so caught up in telling the story about us and that’s not necessarily what people can relate to. The first mistake is we don’t use language or paint that verbal picture in a way that other people can relate to it.

For example, I was telling a story about being on a small airplane. The detail I didn’t put in there was that means 2 seats on each side of the aisle in about 20 rows. The person that was listening to me when I got to the end of the story said, “I thought you were talking smaller than that where there are 4 seats on the entire plane and 2 of them are for the pilot and the co-pilot.” I didn’t help paint the right verbal picture for my listener in that case. We need to understand who our listeners are. The second one is related to that and that is we don’t get clear on what the purpose of the story is.

 

There’s no outcome. It’s a rambling story. People often say, “I’m a pretty good storyteller.” Their friends are going, “I don’t know. Is there ever a point to it? Do I remember it?” It goes on and on.

1 of 2 things can happen if we’re not clear on what the point is we’re trying to make to the example you gave. We give every single detail. Try to engage people and make it fun and interesting. If there’s no point, they get to the end and say, “So what? You’ve wasted five minutes of my life telling this story.”

Here’s a line, “Just because you tell a story doesn’t mean you’re good at it.”

Intentionality is important. I am telling this story to make this point. That is going to help you edit the story, take the experience and turn it into a viable story with the point that we want to teach, lead, sell and inspire.

What is the third mistake?

The third mistake is similar to that. I call it, “We don’t land the plane.”

I tell the story of when I fly from LA to New York. They come on and say, “We’re landing in New York.” One person stands up and says, “We’re landing? I thought we were going to fly around forever.” Yet, many sales conversations never land. They keep talking with more features. “We’ll get back to you next time with another set of facts.” You got to land the plane.

[bctt tweet=”Have a clear intention about what your story is about.” username=”John_Livesay”]

That’s related to not knowing your purpose and not being intentional about what you’re telling the story for. Sometimes people wander around their story, trying to find the point.

I talk about being a co-pilot with your buyer. Pilots have a checklist before they get on that plane. Most salespeople jump into the call without any prep. A pilot would never do that. Here’s the situation I have come up with fairly often, no matter how sophisticated, newer or seasoned someone is. When I’m working with them, practicing what they’re going to say in front of a client, they go, “I’m much better when I’m in front of the real client than I am in these rehearsals.”

I say, “Do you think an athlete says that to his coach? ‘When the crowd gets here in the stadium, I’ll hit the ball.’ An actor on Broadway goes, ‘When the crowd’s here, I’ll hit that note.’ No, you got to hit the note in practice.” How do you handle people if they’re nervous in front of their peers? What causes that thinking?

It goes back to that vulnerability. We get nervous about, “I’m a little vulnerable here.” I loved your analogy that if we don’t practice it before, those nerves are still going to be there in front of your audience, probably exacerbated by a tenfold. You have to practice intentionally doing this. Sometimes people say, “I don’t have somebody to coach me all the time.”

Certainly, they could hire you or me to coach them. They could also record it on their phone, particularly in video. You’ll see all your little glitches in there. You’ll pick out, “That’s an extraneous detail I didn’t need. I missed a detail there that would be important, the number of seats on the plane.” Those things will come out if you will do that with intentionality and trying to get yourself better. It’s like any skill. You’re not going to say to somebody who’s teaching you how to ride a bike, “Tell me how to do it. I’ll get on and I’ll be fine.”

Piggybacking on your story about the airplane and the detail of exposition of what makes something memorable and/or funny or interesting. I tell the story years ago when my dad got remarried and my sisters and I had flown from Atlanta. We were going to this small town in Virginia and it was a small commercial plane.

It was 1 seat on one side, 2 on the other and maybe 10 rows. We were the last plane to leave on a winter stormy night on Thanksgiving. It was a lot of turbulence that you feel on those small little planes. One flight, you feel like you’re on the plane with my sisters and me. That’s what brings that to life. It exasperates the feeling of turbulence. Even the last plane to leave the airport before they shut it down, all that contributes to, “I’m in the plane with you.”

 

You’re tying into some more of the brain chemistry that Dr. Zak talks about. Building all those details around, “It was a winter day. We were the last plane to take off. It was exactly this small. We were feeling a bunch of turbulence.” All of a sudden, I’m in that plane bouncing around with you. I’m feeling a little stressed. That increases in my brain the hormone cortisol. The effect of cortisol is it makes me pay attention because I want to know, “Are they going to crash? Are they going to get there safely? What’s going to happen?”

When you throw your sister’s comment in there about, “Wouldn’t mom be mad if we all died in the plane on the way to dad’s wedding,” that gives me a little closure around that. I feel the neurotransmitter dopamine, which gives me a sense of surprise and delight. That’s the end-point. There’s where the lollipop comes in too. I get this satisfying ending to it that maybe makes me laugh, think or realize, “I’m glad that didn’t happen to me.”

I’m here to tell the story so we made it.

All those details provide that connection to the brain chemistry that makes storytelling effective.

I want to ask you about impactful. How do you help people take a moment in their everyday life and figure out whether that’s a story worth telling or not?

I get this objection from people all the time too, “My life’s too boring. There’s nothing that happens to me.” I had a participant in one of my workshops. They were going to have to come back the next day and tell a real story. She said, “Can I make one up?” I said, “No, you have to have this real story.” She goes, “All the time, I used to tell stories about my crazy Uncle Ned. I didn’t even have a crazy Uncle Ned. I make up these stories.” Going back to vulnerability and authenticity, that flies in the face of that. I challenged her. “You need to come up with your story. She said, “Nothing happens to me.”

Here’s the cool ending to that story. She came back the next day and delivered this great story based on an experience that she’d had on the elevator in the hotel the night before. I asked her, “Where did you come up with that story?” She said, “I was in my hotel room stressing about how I was going to do this delivery. I needed a break. I was thinking I need a story to illustrate this point.”

[bctt tweet=”People in leadership positions want to be the hero of their own stories. And that actually makes them less relatable.” username=”John_Livesay”]

She got on the elevator. She had an interaction with the person on the elevator that gave her an emotional reaction. This is a tip that I give people. If you have an experience that gives you an emotional reaction, there is likely a story there that’s going to teach a principal to make a point. This lady got off the elevator, started walking around the hotel to clear her mind and went, “That’s it. That’s my experience.” In addition to looking for those moments of emotional reaction, pay attention in your life to the things that happen that could be moments that can turn into stories to teach, lead, sell and inspire.

An emotional reaction could be surprise, delight, sadness, anger, happiness, humor or amusement. It doesn’t have to be this huge emotion. It can be anything that causes you to pay, “I’m feeling something.” How do I get the audience to who I’m telling the story to feel something and be in the story with me so that they can relate to it? That’s why comics talk about airplanes so much because it’s a common shared experience.

The best comics, what do they do? They take real life and exaggerate it a little bit to make it funny. I’m not suggesting that we exaggerate because our purpose isn’t just humor. The best comic lines are based on real-life experiences.

I interviewed a humorist on my show and he said that comics’ humor creates a world. Once you’ve created that world, they ask themselves this question, “If this is true, what else is true?” I saw research that said, “If you take a cold shower, it burns fat, fights depression and reduces inflammation.” It had me, it burns fat and that usually gets a laugh. He said, “If that is true, what else is true?”

He said, “I’ve decided to stop working out together and take cold showers three times a day.” I thought, “That’s that second laugh.” That’s part of what you’re teaching too. Once you were in that story, take a beat and ask yourself what else happened? What could make this either more amusing or exaggerated?

As a comic, they would test that joke out and say it in three different ways. I opened with it burns fat as the first benefit and the other two. He said, “We would test it, try it again and say, ‘It fights depression and burns fat.’” The third way would be, “It reduces inflammation and burns fat.” Is that funnier with the burn fat 1st, 2nd or 3rd to get the data to see how somebody’s brain processes where that’s funniest? Is this at the end or beginning? I thought, “There is such a science to telling a joke and a story.”

This goes back to the conversation we were having about practicing. This is why that’s so important. I always encourage people. Don’t pay attention to what you are saying. Pay attention to how people are reacting to it. What we encourage people as they’re first starting in storytelling is to practice with a friend. At the end of their story, ask two questions. “What did you like about this? What did you think the point was?” That’s going to get them to, “Am I making the right point? Am I making the point that I’m intending to make here?”

 

Sometimes I’ve done that. I told a story to my wife. I said, “What did you think the point was?” She said, “I thought the point was this.” I went, “That’s not the point I’m trying to make. I’m trying to make this point.” She goes, “See how you were trying to get there.” We have a discussion around, “What could I change to make sure that that’s the primary point that comes out?”

Here’s the joy for everybody. This won’t only help you in your career. It will help you in your personal relationships. Where so much conflict comes from is the lack of communication. “I’m not a mind reader. How am I supposed to know you’re unhappy? You didn’t get what I was saying. You took it too personally.” I love that once we help people become better storytellers, it’s a dual-purpose outcome.

Even in terms of your advancements in your career. Think about job interviews. Everybody in a job interview gets asked the same questions. You pretty much know what questions are going to be asked. “What’s your biggest weakness?” That’s the one that everybody hates. If I can tell a story that illustrates that point, I’m going to be more memorable.

My daughter, when she was a senior in college, was interviewing for a highly competitive internship. She was practicing with me on the interview. She gave me the questions she expected to get asked. She answered them fairly well but we stopped and said, “Is there a story you can tell to illustrate this point?” She thought about it and said, “I could tell this story.” I said, “Tell that story.”

We had her practice telling that story. She left the interview and got a call on the way home, offering her the internship. Here’s the other cool thing that jumped out to me. Six months into her internship, the person who had hired her, they were in a meeting, turned to Ali and said, “Could you tell the story that you told in your interview about this because that’s going to help make this point here?” Think about how memorable that is.

Memorable and repeatable, that’s the goal. I talk about that because after you pitch yourself to get hired or hire us as an architect or by my product, they listen to all the pitches and go, “That’s the meeting after the meeting. What do you think?” They say, “They all sound the same. Let’s go with the cheapest,” or they say, “One of them told a story that made me feel like that’s the right fit for us.”

That goes back to what we’re talking about making it connect. Not only do they remember the story but they remember you as the person because there was that little oxytocin increase where suddenly we are connected. “Now, I trust and like you more.” That’s why you’re going to stand out as more memorable.

[bctt tweet=”Storytelling is the lollipop for the brain. There always needs to be a sweet and satisfying ending.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Mark, I understand you have a gift for the readers. Would you share what that is?

If you would go to our website and it’s Master-Storytelling.com/PodcastGift, it will take you to a page where you can get a free copy of our eBook Master Storytelling.

If someone wants to explore having you come and speak or consult, where should they go?

The best space is probably that website, Master-Storytelling.com. We’ve got a response section there where you can send us those requests. You can contact me directly at [email protected]. You can also find me on LinkedIn, Facebook and YouTube. If you search for Master Storytelling, you’ll find me. If you search for Mark Carpenter, you’ll come up with a bazillion of those names because that’s a fairly common name. Look for the one that has Master Storytelling connected to it.

Any last thought or quote you want to leave us with before we let you go?

This has come up a couple of times in our conversation but the one that I always come back to is, “Be intentional.” That fits not just with storytelling but what you do in your day-to-day life. When I find myself drifting a little bit in my day, I’m like, “I’m not being productive.” I try to stop and say, “Be intentional. What do I want to accomplish here?” That’s a phrase that I use a lot.

It sets the tone for everything and you’re not reacting. It helps you be more productive and focused. Mark, thanks for sharing many great tips on how we can all take everyday experiences and turn them into stories that people are going to remember and want to repeat.

John, this has been wonderful talking to you. Thanks for having me on.

 

Important Links

• Master Storytelling
• Master-Storytelling.com/PodcastGift
• [email protected]
• LinkedIn – Mark Carpenter
• Facebook – Master Storytelling
• YouTube – Master Storytelling
• Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course

 

Wanna Host Your Own Podcast?

Click here to see how my friends at Podetize can help

Purchase John’s new book

The Sale Is in the Tale

John Livesay, The Pitch Whisperer

Share The Show

Did you enjoy the show? I’d love it if you subscribed today and left us a 5-star review!

• Click this link
• Click on the ‘Subscribe’ button below the artwork
• Go to the ‘Ratings and Reviews’ section
• Click on ‘Write a Review’

Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share!

• Here’s How »

Join The Successful Pitch community today:

• JohnLivesay.com
• John Livesay Facebook
• John Livesay Twitter
• John Livesay LinkedIn
• John Livesay YouTube

 

Tags: Creating A Point, Emotional Reaction, Master Storytelling, Oxytocin, Painting A Picture, Vulnerability