Holding The Calm With Hesha Abrams

Posted by John Livesay in podcast0 comments

 

Few people master being calm when arguments and conflicts surround everything. Our guest in this episode found the secret to resolving conflict and diffusing the tension in her book, Holding the Calm. Master mediator Hesha Abrams joins host John Livesay to share some inputs that will help you handle these tough situations. What do you do when people are angry or hysterical at you? How do you best deal with a situation where someone is crying? Hesha answers these questions and more while offering pragmatic ways to understand and resolve conflict. Plus, get to know a technique you can use to your advantage. Be the calm between the storm. Learn from Hesha and see its power in business and in life.

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Holding The Calm With Hesha Abrams

Our guest in this episode is Hesha Abrams, the Author of Holding the Calm. Have you ever wondered what you should do when someone’s yelling at you? Do you know what to do when someone’s crying? Do you know what to do when someone doesn’t say anything? Find out the answers to all of those questions and more in this episode.

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Our guest is Hesha Abrams, who is a master mediator who’s written and spoken widely to audiences around the globe who are seeking a better understanding of conflict and pragmatic ways to resolve it. Most people are so afraid of conflict. It raises their blood pressure. It makes them nervous, afraid, and aggressive when that is our only tool. Diffusing this tension and helping create harmony where once there was discord is Hesha’s life’s work.

She wrote Holding the Calm as a way to share real tools that work so that other people can benefit from her experience, resolve conflict, and diffuse tension in their corner of the world. She’s worked all over the world with parties around the globe in complex commercial business and patent licensing deals. She’s taught mediation and negotiation around the world. She was on a panel and the Chair of the Texas Bar Intellectual Property and ADR Committee. She has so many awards, but let’s get to her.

We met through a mutual friend, who’s also been a guest on the show, Dr. Benjamin. He is an amazing person in his own right, helping people with their careers. That is how I like to meet people. I always talk about the trust is transferred. When we get a warm introduction as you and I did, you suddenly go, ”All the defenses go down,” and that is a big part of what you’re doing. It’s a big part of what Dr. Ben Ritter’s work is about as well.

We’re all in the same boat. Each of us has a different oar that we’re rowing to help move people along on their journey. Let’s hear more about your own little story of origin, where you grew up. You can go back to childhood, law school, wherever you want. She went, “I’m pretty good at getting my parents or my friends to stop arguing.” When did you discover you had this gift?

It’s interesting. It’s the exact opposite of what you said. I grew up in a household filled with conflict, fighting, and arguing. I handled it the way most people handle it. You either fight back or run away. Those are the only two tools you’ve got. I learned to be very aggressive and fight. It wasn’t healthy and good. I didn’t learn good skills. I had to do that. I was a good arguer so what did I become? A lawyer. That’s what you do. I found it very challenging and unsatisfying to win cases that you should lose or lose cases that you should win. Nothing was right.

I met this woman who was a mediator and did family law stuff. I listened to her and I went, “Do you talk to people for a living and solve problems? How do I learn more about that?” This was many years ago when there wasn’t mediation. Mediation was in the family and some labor stuff. It was limited. I was a business lawyer. I went to a federal judge that I knew, and said, “I don’t know if this new-fangled stuff will work. Let me have five little nothing cases and let me try.” I settled every one of them.

He was shocked. I was shocked and hooked. I said, “This is what I want to do for the rest of my life.” The key is those five cases, I did everything wrong. I didn’t know what I was doing. I was making it up as I went along. That started lifelong learning and reading. I don’t want to say I’ve read every neuroscience book out there, but I should’ve made a big dent in them. How do people think? How do they make decisions? Why is this important? How do we do that? I want to be effective.

[bctt tweet=”Conflict is behind interactions.” username=”John_Livesay”]

I’ve done from small little, “Whose roommate cat peed on the rug?” up to multibillion-dollar behemoth cases. Sometimes the roommate’s cat peeing on the rug is harder than a $1 billion licensing deal overseas because it’s all ego. We all have bumper car ego bashing into each other. We don’t have skills. I didn’t have skills.

I did lots and lots of therapy in my life to get healthy and say, “I am going to choose to not negotiate or fight or interact the way my family did.” It wasn’t healthy. I didn’t like it, and that dysfunction is going to stop with me. I’m going to clean up my ancestry align downstream of me, which I’ve done. I’ve got great kids that are adults. I’ve got grandkids now. I’m 63 now in 2022. My philosophy is, “I better be better at 73 than I am at 63.”

That’s the joy of getting a little older. One of my other guests on the show is Chip Conley. He has a Modern Elder Academy down in Baja, California, celebrating people our age and the wisdom we’ve gotten so far this life that we go, “I have learned some things that I might be able to help other people not stay stuck or separating about an issue.”

I would love to meet him. That sounds so important to do. When people say, “What’s the meaning of life?” It’s to be a wise person when you’re old. If you’re old and are not wise, you missed the boat. Your job is to be wise and learn something. We have flat foreheads. We bash our heads against the wall. That’s why they’re flat. Instead of doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome, do something different.

A lot of people go back for holidays, especially with our families. You revert back to your childhood roles and somehow, everyone’s going to get balls that they don’t suddenly have. Let’s go to the question of how do we handle when someone’s yelling at us without shutting down during the fight or flight, fighting back, yelling back, or getting so calm? Sometimes people are doing it because they have uncontrollable anger issues, whether it’s a boss or a friend. Sometimes that even makes them angrier when you don’t get angry. When someone is yelling at you, what do you do?

Let me give you a little background first. Every single conflict comes from powerlessness. Either you are trying to make me do or believe something that I don’t want, or I am trying to make you do or believe something that you don’t want. In every instance, that is the common denominator. I don’t care whatever the conflict is. Childhood home stuff, a fight with a neighbor or a boss, and billionaires fighting over their rocket ships, all deal with power and powerlessness and an attempt to grab or get power. We do it in very ineffective ways.

The analogy and the story that I want to make sure I start with is you drop spaghetti sauce on the counter. It’s wet. You wipe it up with the sponge. You wait overnight. You’re scraping it off with a spatula. Wait a couple of weeks, it’s moldy, old, and gross. That’s why I called the book, The Secret to Resolving Conflict and Diffusing Tension. All conflict starts with tension, but we don’t handle the tension. We don’t deal with it.

 

That person that is yelling and angry did something before they started getting angry. We ignored it and didn’t deal with it because, “I don’t know how to deal with it. I don’t want to deal with it. I’m tired. He’s an idiot. I don’t want to do this. She’s difficult.” It doesn’t go away. It grows. The first thing I would say with that introduction is that when someone is angry, what they are saying is, “I’m feeling powerless here. I am trying to grab some power. The way I’m choosing to grab power is not an effective way, but it’s the only way I got, so I’m going to scream and yell.”

I can choose to match them. I don’t think that would be a wise choice, but it would be a choice. I can say to myself, “I’m going to grab some power because your yelling has triggered me. I want to yell back or I want to run away. I want to stay fake calm.” That fake calm is even worse because it’s almost judgmental. The reason I titled the book, Holding the Calm, is that I wanted people to have a mantra, a talisman, a rabbit’s foot that they could have now.

I don’t need to take some certificate, some course, or some class, or do some big mind change something. What can I do when I’m in trouble? You say to yourself, “The first thing I got to do is I got to grab power back.” I say, “I’m holding the calm,” repeatedly. It takes 6 or 7 seconds. I have told my amygdala in my brain, “I’m not powerless. I got power. What am I going to choose to do with this power?”

What I put in the book are twenty tools. Each tool has chapters, stories, and anecdotes. What do you do? How do you do it? I’m going to say, “I’m holding the calm first to myself.” I’m not saying to myself, “Calm down,” that doesn’t work. It doesn’t make the amygdala work. It makes the amygdala more frightened and aggravated. When I say I am holding the calm, that’s an active power. I am doing something. What do I choose to do?

I’m going to look at that person. What does that person need? I’m not going to look at the symptom. I’m going to diagnose. The symptom is yelling. The diagnostic is, “Why are they yelling? What’s going on? Why are they so out of control that they can’t control themselves and they’re yelling?” I’m going to diagnose it like a bomb detector. That guy waddles out in his Michelin suit. He doesn’t just start cutting wires. He looks at it. He diagnoses it. Is there a pressure switch? Is there a chemical reaction? What is happening before I start snipping wires?

When someone’s screaming and yelling, that’s a bit of a bomb, isn’t it? I’m going to look at them. What is happening here? Let’s say I can figure it out. I’m going to address it that way. Let’s say I can’t. Let’s make it hard. “I have no idea why you’ve lost your stuff.” You’re going crazy on me. I have a technique that I called VUCS, Validate, Understand, Clarify, Summarize. The reason I called it VUCS for our dear readers is it sounds like a curse word in English.

Those of you who know English curse words know what that curse word is. You’re not going to forget VUCS because instead of saying something else to them, you’re going to VUCS them. The first thing you do with the V is validate. If I can validate, I would be angry, too. That sucks. That’s terrible. That was wrong and unfair. Let’s say I can’t validate. Let’s make it hard. I can’t validate because I think you’re an idiot or you’re ridiculous. I don’t understand why you’re getting so angry. I’m going to name the emotion. “You’re angry.” “I’m not angry. I’m frustrated. Okay?” I got another diagnostic, didn’t I? “You’re frustrated. What’s going on? Tell me more. I want to understand it.” It seems miserable.

[bctt tweet=”I am holding the calm.” username=”John_Livesay”]

They don’t expect you to say, “Tell me more.” They are so explosive that they feel like they have to keep screaming and yelling to even be heard. Let alone tell me more. Validate, clarify, what are the other two?

VUCS is Validate, Understand, Clarify, which is asking questions, and Summarize, which is getting to problem-solving. When the person is yelling, they are feeling powerless. When you name the emotion and ask a legitimate question, you’re trying to help. You’ve given them power back. You have drained 50% of the poison like that, gone.

Let’s say someone’s angry. You might have to do it a couple of times. It depends on the person and how habituated they are to anger. You’re not judging and arguing with them. What do we normally do? You’re an idiot. You’re stupid. I’m going to educate you and give you facts, figures, and reasons why you’re so stupid. You’re going to listen to me and change your mind. Let me know how that’s working out.

You said so many wonderful things here. I want to circle back on a couple of them to underline and let people digest this. The first one that jumped out at me was the spaghetti sauce. I love an analogy, the visual of that, the time of how long it sticks, and the harder it is to deal with unresolved conflict, as opposed to dealing with it at the moment. That has been a challenge for me my whole life. It would come out like a fire hydrant because I never expressed the frustration that built and built.

I had some friends staying with me who are chefs and I’m not. They said, “I learned this at a restaurant. After I make eggs, I hold them under the water at the sink, put some soap in them, and put it back on the oven or the stove. There is a chemical reaction because of that heat and the water.” It was like, “How amazing that there’s a chemical reaction that can make it less sticky without me having to scrub.”

I never knew that. It’s almost counterintuitive to put something hot back on hot. That’s what that spaghetti story reminds me of. There are many ways to solve a problem, whether it’s spaghetti or that analogy of our own rusty crusty stuff. Sometimes it requires going back into the fire and looking at what’s going on.

I like it because it’s the redheaded stepchild of your 555. It’s a lovely corollary to say, “With the 555 I’m angry and upset. Where am I going to be?” With conflict, you’re better if you do it earlier. If you don’t, don’t worry about it. You’ll have to do it later. It’s going to be harder.

 

For those readers who don’t know, my 555 is, “Will this matter in 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days from now?” It’s to help you let go of something sooner. You’re not stuck on rejection. You can be completely present. The other thing you said that I love is this mantra you have given yourself when someone is yelling, “I am holding the calm.”

You and I are kindred spirits on a lot of levels. One of the things I came up with several years ago was when I would ask someone, “Do you want to buy?” The old way of selling is whoever speaks first loses. It’s like you referring to the fake calm. I thought, “Most salespeople are not comfortable with silence.”

I told people, “After you say, ‘Would you like to buy a car, a house, or whatever it is?’ say to yourself, ‘I am patient and calm,’ three times.” It’s the same thing, 3 times, and that extra 5 or 10 seconds of silence that the person feels energetical, your patient and calm gives them the time to say yes or no without you going into a whole other negotiation. This is another tool in the toolbox.

Let’s go to the opposite. How do you respond when someone’s crying? I certainly have this situation with my mom. I want to jump into standard male behavior of, “Let me fix it. What do I have to do to make you stop crying?” Sometimes, she needs to cry. Sometimes it can be manipulated. Sometimes it’s not authentic or you feel like you’ve come across too hard.

There are so many things that can cause someone to cry. You have this amazing story that I want to get to about the postman. That situation would make anybody cry. In storytelling, that’s what we call an open loop that we’re going to get back to. What’s 1 of the 20-some solutions that you have here when someone’s crying? What do you recommend?

In that one, I would do VUCS because VUCS is good for all big emotions. The first thing is to see them and not to run away from them. If someone’s crying and you’re like, “I got to fix it,” or “I don’t want to deal with it.” All you do is make the person feel powerless and weak. That’s why they’re crying, to begin with. If you stand there and say, “You’re sad. You’re crying.” It sounds a little idiotic. They’re crying for you to say, “You’re crying.” I cannot tell you it is medicine on a wound for someone to be seen, heard, not argued with, not challenged, not told to stop and they’re wrong, to just be seen and say, “You’re crunched.” “I am.” “What is so upsetting? Help me to understand.”

I’m telling you, 50% of the pain and misery comes out. In the end, you’re going to have people laughing, crying, and trying to hug you. Let’s make it hard. Let’s make it not your mom. Let’s make it a coworker or a customer. You offended them or said something. You don’t even know what you did. They start crying. You are like, “God, what do I do?” It works beautifully there to say, “Why are you crying? You’re crying.” You would see it. “What happened? Why are you so upset? What can I do?”

[bctt tweet=”All conflict starts with tension.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Notice what happened in that interaction. Where did the power go? You said, “I have power and I’m going to give it to you.” A person that was powerless got the gift of power. It’s the best gift you can ever give somebody. It’s amazing. Now the person will share whatever they choose to share or not. “What can I do?” Do you know what you can do? That’s obvious.

If you don’t know what you can do, it’s just sometimes being there and acknowledging whatever is happening. Think about this. This is a crazy analogy to use. When people die, people say the worst things to the mourners, “I know how you feel.” You don’t. “You’ll get over this soon.” I won’t. “They were old. They lived a good life.” Screw you. It’s the best thing to say, but we don’t know what to say.

We give these platitudes to make ourselves feel better. If I were trying to make you feel better, I would VUCS you. Name the emotion, acknowledge whatever’s going on for you without needing to fix it, change it, grow it, or be the hero for you. I’m letting you have power. I don’t care if you’re dealing with a kid, a teenager, a neighbor, a parent, or a client. I do multibillion-dollar companies with each other. All that would be the same. It’s human beings doing bumper car ego.

Let’s go to the third option. We have extreme anger and sadness. There are people who won’t give you any indication of what they’re feeling or thinking. They won’t answer any of your questions or you get one-word answers. Do we VUCS them? It’s hard to VUCS if they don’t want to say anything. Where would we start with that one?

It’s the same concept of power. If they don’t want to say anything, they’re feeling powerless. How are they taking power? It’s by shutting down. “I’m not going to give you anything. I don’t know if you’re going to use it against me. I’m not feeling safe. I don’t know what I want to do. I’m feeling confused. I don’t have authority. I’ve gotten myself into something that I don’t know how to get out of. The best answer is to shut my mouth and not say anything.”

As you try to force them to talk, you’re taking power away from them. Don’t do that. You say, “We don’t have to have a big, long discussion about this. If you don’t want to do that, how would you like to proceed? What would be most beneficial for you? Would you like an adjournment? Would you like us to move to a different topic? What would you like?” You give them power. You will see that they will either open up then because you became safe and trusting or they won’t, but later it will circle back around to something good because you are a person that was worthy of their boundaries.

I have a whole chapter in the book called Creating Small Winnable Victories because we always think of the goals as big. “You’re going to make the big sale. You’re going to solve the big thing. You’re going to fix the big problem.” That’s not how things are done. Conflict is eroded from the outside and it melts. It’s the same way that like you would do a sale. You build the relationship from the outside in.

 

You erode conflict from the outside in and do it in small little ways. “Where would you like to meet? What restaurant would you like to go to? Is the temperature okay for you? What music would you like to play? Who would you like to attend? How do you think we should proceed?” Those are small little, nothing gifts of power that let the other person open up to you.

You have one of the most amazing stories in the book, grabbing me by the heart. The story is based on this. You either think that the world, as Einstein said, is a friendly safe place, and you make all your decisions based on that or you don’t. That’s what this story reminds me of. I’m going to get the highlights and ask you to get us to the conflict, the drama part.

A truck hit a young boy. The boy became brain damaged from that. They’re not allowed to pass out candy to kids because they don’t want them running. This rural postal driver said, “I can give a little candy and give some happiness out.” His intentions could not have been purer. One day, he was sick and the other postal worker taking over didn’t know or it was a woman that was the driver. The substitute driver gently hit this little boy and was brain-damaged. The family sued the post office and they didn’t have money.

Here’s the thing that gets me. The father of that little boy was a truck driver. The mom was a waitress and she was so nervous. She took extra sleeping pills and the husband woke up to find a dead wife. Not only is his son killed. His wife has been killed because of overdosing on sleeping pills because she was so stressed out by the situation. Enter you. I’d be so burdened with the overall feeling of empathy. In that situation, are you representing the father or the post office?

I’m not representing either. I’m a mediator. I am a neutral third party in the middle that meets both the government and the family. I try to work out a deal. I can’t allow myself to feel so emotional and so empathetic because that would affect my neutrality. It would be hard for me to do the job I’ve been tasked to do, which is to create peace or make a deal. I can create peace in trade union fights or in wars between countries, companies, or family members. It’s all exactly the same. I take a servant leadership viewpoint because that’s what helps me stay healthy and sane. I walk in and say, “How can I be of service here? What can I do? It’s great for a salesperson, quite frankly.

I had strong feelings. I’m a human being, too. I thought to myself in the car driving there, in the law firm before I’m outside the door, “What am I saying to this guy? How am I going to empathize with him? How am I going to mirror him? Will he be angry? Will he be shut down? What will I get?” I walked into the room and like the bomb detector, I diagnose. I don’t just start talking. I walk in and introduce myself. I look at him. Body language is not that hard to read if you pay attention.

When he’s sitting slumped into a chair, the hat pulled low over his mouth. He had a big wad of chewing tobacco in his mouth. His face was in a snarl. He looked at me. He was filled with hatred, anger, pain, and grief. It radiated off of him like the sun. I could tell that his lawyer couldn’t handle him because the lawyer didn’t know what to say and do. The lawyer is just handling the legal stuff. He’s sitting there, looking at me, and they weren’t near each other. There was not even any body language. I thought, “What this man need is truth. He needs someone to see the truth of how horrible this was.” Can I tell the story of what I did?

[bctt tweet=”A mediator is a neutral third party in the middle. You can’t allow yourself to feel so emotional and empathetic because that would affect your neutrality.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Please.

I didn’t think this beforehand. When you’re in servant leadership, trying to help people, and holding the calm, stuff will come to you. That’s the beauty of it. I looked at him and spoke the truth. I said, “How are you handling this?” He looked at me and goes, “I read the Bible,” and he snarled at me. I matched him. I snarled back because I wanted to meet him to his face. I went, “What part?” He said, “Job,” and I said, “You are Job.” He slid off the chair onto the floor and sat down. I sat down on the floor next to him. I looked at the lawyer with a look like, “Don’t talk.” I sat there on the floor. I didn’t touch him or say a word.

It must have been twenty minutes. I don’t even know, but it felt like forever. It felt like somehow something shifted. I looked at him and said, “Let’s be done with this.” I looked at the lawyer and talked to him about a few little lawyerly things. I went over to the postal service people who were looking at this like a file. They were insurance. It was a case and a file. They have to value it appropriately. The dead wife was not their responsibility. They weren’t going to add any money to that.

If I had started with that, they would have gotten defensive. I walked in and I told them the story of what happened. They were shocked and speechless. I said, “Let’s not even talk about the facts of the case. We know him. Let’s talk money. What can we do to make this over for this man?” Within like 1 or 2, we got to a settlement number, wrote it up, and we were done. That was it. It was the right way to diffuse that bomb in that situation. You may have another situation where somebody needs to vent and vomit over and over again. Handle that one differently. That’s why I have twenty tools in Holding the Calm because one is not going to work for everybody.

I tell people, “Think of your brain like a jukebox or a playlist, depending on your age. You need different stories. You have different tools depending on the situation.” The book has so many great stories of you negotiating big deals or something regarding Pepsi. I’m going to leave that in the air for people to be curious enough to want to buy the book and get it.

You can tell them, “It’s the secret recipe over Pepsi.” That even makes it more interesting.

You also are a speaker. People bring you in not for mediation, but to speak. Tell us who your ideal audience is and what people are all about in that world.

It’s interesting. I’m a business lawyer and I’m a business mediator. I started doing a few family law cases or divorce cases because lawyers would call me and say, “I need someone who can handle the business and the emotional part.” I could do that. What I found is that, late at night, big fancy lawyers or CEOs of companies would start talking to me about marital problems or problems with their teenagers, their kids, teacher, or coach being stupid and that being a problem. How would they handle that?

I started giving ideas and suggestions on how to handle that. I find big businesses, trade groups, and organizations bring me in as keynote speaker to do this stuff. I was on compassionate parenting. I’m on Power Your Parenting Podcast. I did Compassionate Parenting Podcast a few weeks ago. People want this in all elements of their life because conflict is the DNA behind and below every single interaction we have. No matter what you do, you can unravel it by allowing the spaghetti sauce to get molding and gunky.

It is behind all the interactions and the need for power and the need to be right. I remember years ago, someone saying, “Your big choice here is, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?” Most people can’t put their ego aside, “I need to be right all the time. I’m this and that.”

I would give you a corollary to that. There are times when you want to say, “Do you want to be right or be happy?” is an evolved way of thinking. When we’re in conflict, quite frankly, we are not evolved. We are angry. We have ocular occlusion and auditory exclusion. Our ears stopped hearing and our eyes stopped seeing. I can’t think about being happy. I’m too pissed off. I’m too right and you’re too wrong. What I change it to is, “Do you want to be right or do you want to win?”

The reason why that works is that the amygdala is triggered. The amygdala isn’t thinking about being happy. It’s the fear and negativity center of the brain, but it is wanting to win. You can be right. Do you want to convince them you’re right or do you want to win? Do you want to get what you want? It is not as elevated as being a happy one. I agree. This book is and I am all about being pragmatic, real human beings in real situations with what works.

It’s so good because you might have to let go. You want to win more than you want to be right. Happy is more evolved. You set up Maslow’s hierarchy. This is part of our brain where we get so overwhelmed. I hope everyone starts using the entre, “I am holding the calm to take back the power,” especially when someone’s yelling at you. I hope everyone gets the book. I hope people call and book you as a speaker because the more people who hear you and read your message, the calmer the world might be. That’s all we can do. Light a candle in the darkness. You’ve given us lots of matches and lots of candles with your wonderful presence.

Thank you for saying that. I have a day job. It’s my work, but I wanted to get this out there because look at what’s happening in our society now. We can’t talk to anybody about anything. If you think differently than me, you’re stupid. This is the caution I want to end with. I tell people, “You’re talking to somebody and think they’re ridiculous. They’re stupid. Think to yourself, ‘Would they pull my kid out of a burning car?’ The answer to that is, ‘Yes,’ which is 95% of the time, maybe they’re not stupid. Maybe there is something redemptive about them. If I’m a little curious and I try to VUCS them and understand a little more, maybe I’ll find something a tiny bit redeeming. You can have a conversation.”

The book again is called Holding the Calm. If people want to reach out to you, they go to your website, which is HoldingTheCalm.com.

It’s on Amazon and anywhere books are sold.

Thank you, Hesha, so much for sharing your calmness, your wisdom, and your incredible gifts.

I appreciate it very much. Thank you for having me on.

 

Important Links

• Holding the Calm
• Dr. Benjamin – Past Episode
• Chip Conley – Past Episode
• Power Your Parenting Podcast
• Amazon – Holding the Calm
• Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course

 

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Tags: Amygdala, Building Relationship, Diffusing Tension, Holding the Calm, Mediator, Resolving Conflict