Don’t Be Afraid To Be Replaceable: Preparing Yourself For The Next Growth Level With Michael Van De Ven
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Are you afraid to be replaceable? Don’t be. John Livesay sits down with Michael Van de Ven, the National Sales Director for Vision Care at Bausch + Lomb Canada. Michael shares that being replaceable means, you’re a good leader and manager. Why? Because you succeeded in honing top talent that can take your role. When that happens, you’re ready for a promotion! Join in the conversation to discover valuable wisdom on passionate leadership.
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Listen to the podcast here
Don’t Be Afraid To Be Replaceable: Preparing Yourself For The Next Growth Level With Michael Van De Ven
Our guest is Michael Van De Ven, the National Sales Director at Bausch + Lomb Canada. He talks about how important it is to make fewer promises so you can make sure you keep those promises and without a story, you are just a commodity. Find out what he means. Enjoy the episode.
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Our guest is Michael Van De Ven, who was originally from London, Ontario. Michael graduated from Western University in 2011 and quickly developed his experience in the different fields of marketing and sales with the hospitality and consumer packaged goods industries. In 2016, he joined Bausch + Lomb as a Territory Manager, working closely with optometrists and opticians across the channels to build strong relationships and educate on new technology contact lenses.
In late 2017, he transferred to the position of regional sales manager for English-speaking Canada and developed the Bausch + Lomb Vision Care Canadian Program, which has played an instrumental role in developing the knowledge of the field sales team across the country. Throughout his time as a regional sales manager, he has continuously led and supported various projects within marketing, national accounts, development, and the education of student eyecare practitioners. Now he is the National Sales Director. Michael, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me. It is a great honor to be on here.
You and I met because you honored me by selecting me as your sales keynote speaker for your annual sales meeting. From there, we realized that we share a passion for helping people tell better stories and how that led to us wanting to have you on the show to share your unique vision on what it takes to be successful in sales and sales and management. Why don’t you tell us about your own story of origin? You have a unique family background and then we will lead into how that led to you getting into the healthcare space.
It starts back with my parents. Growing up, I had a father. He worked 7 days a week, 12 hours a day. He made it a point with my mom to pay for the education of myself, my brother and sister, so we graduated from university. He said, “You will not have to work in the same environment that I did. I want you to be successful.” That is something that we all keep top of mind as we have continued to push ourselves and develop in our own careers.
When I think about where my career started, I graduated from university. I started in the hospitality industry as the marketing manager for a bar and restaurant in London, Ontario. Looking back at it, I have had different people say, “It was not that a waste of the first couple of years of your career.” It was interesting because the bar was owned by two very business-savvy gentlemen who had MBAs and owned different restaurants in London. They forced me to work at forecasting, come up with a marketing plan and learn all the different social media platforms, which was great. They were skills that I carried over into different businesses.
What was cool was I dealt with a lot of different people. I dealt with business school students, the average bar patron, corporate events, you name it. It allowed me to diversify my social skills, which has played a key role in sales moving forward for myself. After I took those skills, I left the bar and hospitality industry. I went into consumer packaged goods with PepsiCo. I sold on the beverage side and there was where I started taking some of those skills and integrating them more into a corporate environment. PepsiCo is a fantastic company for training, learning, culture, and everything like that. There are so many great relationships that I still have there. I was able to elevate myself into three different positions in a short period of time.
[bctt tweet=”Be curious and prepared.” username=”John_Livesay”]
Within that time, I was looking to break into the medical industry. My brother, at the time, had worked for Bausch + Lomb on the pharmaceutical side of our business. My sister is an optometrist. It was lots of eyecare already in my family. I have been trying for a while and I had interviewed a couple of different times, but I was unsuccessful mostly because I did not have medical experience. Finally, a role opened up with Bausch + Lomb in London for a new product that they were launching.
At first, there was some hesitation because I did not have experience, but I was able to make my way through the interview based on some of the values I brought to the table. In my very first year, I was able to win top performer in Canada. It was a pivotal point in my career where not only had I gone through the process and picked up other skills, but I have proven to myself that I could be successful in this medical environment, but also show the company that you can take chances on people if they have the right skillsets and develop them to success.
After about a year and a half as a territory manager, I was promoted to a regional sales manager for English-speaking Canada. I was 28 at the time. It was my first time being a manager. I had only been in medical device for a year and a half. I took the leap of faith. I wanted to build my foundation for success off of three things. The three things were always making sure that I am willing to lead my team into the fire with anything. I wanted to make sure that I could do everything well. I have done it myself so that I could teach them properly as I trained them.
The second thing was to make a few promises and keep them all. I only make a promise if I could make sure that I could follow through on it. The third thing was I always tried to fill the gaps that I faced for previous managers, which included investing more in development and coaching and everybody more than employee number but making sure that they had the opportunity to grow within our team. That is how I was able to develop and attract so much talent within our organization.
As I went to that position over various years, we had multiple product launches, revamped the sales team, and developed a lot of talent. Eventually, I moved into the role I am in, which is National Sales Director. As a National Sales Director, as someone that owns the strategy, it is important for me to maintain the culture that we have been able to build over the years, but further back from the front lines.
Be Replaceable: Learning all the different social media platforms is a great skill.
This has been a learning experience, but also it is cool to see that if I had been in this position earlier, the company would be feeling it a bit more from a personnel standpoint. I truly believe that we have developed top talent to a point where I am more replaceable. Some people say, “Never tell someone you are replaceable, so you can protect your job.” For me, if I am replaceable, that means that I am a good leader and I am a good manager. That is fantastic.
That is a good tweet. Do not be afraid to be replaceable as a leader. That shows that you are ready for the next level of promotion. Let’s take a dive into each of these three key things. The first one is about leading your team into the fire and not asking them to do anything you are not willing to do or have not done yourself. That builds a lot of trust with people, as well as you know it is possible because you have done it.
If I am asking someone to make X number of calls, for example, or start using storytelling in their presentations, you have seen it, done it, and seen it work. If someone is coachable, you say, “I know this is a new skill. It is like anything else. It is awkward at first, like riding a bike for the first time or driving a stick shift, but you will master this and the outcome will be worth it.”
This other thing is so valuable because whether you are a sales manager or a politician or anybody who has got to lead people, keep the promises you make. Therefore, to keep the promises you make, keep the number of promises to a manageable number. In other words, do not promise the world. I always tell people, “If you think you can be everything to everybody, you are nothing to anybody.” In your line of work, you are calling on optometrists. If you promise the optometrists 10 things and you deliver on 8, they are still going to be frustrated.
If you only say, “Working with us, we are going to promise you three things. We are going to help you find staff if you need it or we are going to help you be more profitable.” Those are some things that I learned of why the optometrists are using you from my interviews before I gave the keynote talk. The promises have value to them as opposed to, “The product will show up on time.” That is the minimum table stakes. I wanted to ask you more about that. If you agree with how important it is to keep the promises to a short, small number, but also that those promises have value to the people you are making them to. What do you think about that?
[bctt tweet=”Make promises that you can keep.” username=”John_Livesay”]
It works both ways, internally and externally. As a leader, everybody is always watching. Your margin for error is very small. With customers, especially a new prospects, your margin for error is extremely small as well. You want to make sure that if you are going to commit to something, you can follow through, and that is how you build the foundation for trust with your customers and your team.
When you have that foundation for trust, the business does not always go perfect in any world. When things are not going perfect, if you can show your team that there is a way forward and a light at the end of the tunnel and they have that trust that is already developed, that is how you are going to keep your horses riding versus seeing people deter to leaving the company or exploring other options.
Your third point about as a manager, a director, filling in these gaps, not everybody arrives with the same training, whether it is sales training or product knowledge training and how important it is to keep learning. Many people think, “Now I am out of university, I do not have to read another book. Maybe I have to learn a few new things about a product, but as far as my presentation skills, storytelling skills, or listening skills, I am done.” You are like, “No.” We talked about how you pride yourself and walking your talk on continuing to learn. Can you speak about that? You said before the show that you keep challenging yourself to bring some new, innovative ways of doing things that are resulting in people being successful.
I have a good story that can help us. When I first became a regional sales manager, I had six vacancies to fill. We already talked about how I was a 28-year-old first-time manager. Typically, we relied on our US counterparts for training and they did not have a training session scheduled anytime soon. I had to step up as a new manager and collect content and put together a training session in a short time. I always reflect back to that first session and it was perceived as great, but I knew it was not great compared to where we are because it was put together so quickly. Over time, it has quickly developed and we have changed the process. We have seen how different reps have learned. We have engaged with online learning versus virtual versus role plays. We diversified things to make it less didactic and more engaging.
We are going through a training process with a couple of new hires. What they are going through, I see some of the other leaders on the team be like, “I remember my training process and thinking it was great, but it has evolved so much now.” You can see that everyone is getting more comfortable and they appreciate that when you join a new company.
Be Replaceable: Commit to something you can follow through to build the foundation of trust with your customers.
When someone joins a new company, that is your first chance to create that feeling of culture and wantedness within the company and put yourself in a good spot. It is going to make them want to be with the company for a long period of time. That evolution of the training program is a great example of innovation within our team and for myself personally.
I have some marketing background, but I have never worked marketing in terms of medical device. I reached out to our company. I said, “I want to take some brand management courses with Cornell University.” I decided to do that. I would wake up at 5:00 AM, go for a run, and work on my certification for a couple of hours three times a week. That was me trying to fill some of the gaps I had because I knew as I grew further and further in terms of my leadership positions. It is great for me to understand the different functions of the business. I can lead in a way where I understand all the different aspects of the business and make decisions that are going to best support every single function.
This concept of your own personal story, how other people see themselves in that story, and this ability to break into a new industry, whether it is healthcare or anything. The skills you develop as a salesperson, storytelling, listening, empathy, and problem-solving are in fact, transferable so that you won top performer your first year out.
It sets a precedent of, “The ideal candidate does not necessarily have to check off ten of these boxes if they have these characteristics in place.” When you are now in the place of giving someone a chance or a break, what characteristics are you looking for? That you say, “I can teach them the product knowledge, but I cannot teach them this,” and because they already bring that to it, the odds are they will be successful.
I look for the talent. I always hire the most talented person. There is a difference between talent and skills. Skills can be bought. Talent is something that you have inherently. Personable skills, from a personality standpoint, are you going to be able to succeed in the social environment in a very heavy relationship-driven industry? How is your curiosity? What kind of questions are you asking me? How much preparation did you do for the interview?
[bctt tweet=”Use your most positive face and bring the right energy because there are people out there who are living their best life. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
Your capacity to learn and develop, where do you want to go with your career? Are you asking me what the training program looks like and the expectations? For me, that is great. I want someone that is coming in and has all those different things. Having additional experience is always a plus, but it is never something that I particularly hone in on unless it is a rockstar candidate.
I have three quick examples. Sometimes I tear up talking about this because they are such great stories. One gentleman interviewed with one of our competitors and they told him that he did not have sales experience and did not give them a chance. I hired him as a maternity leave cover near Toronto. He did extremely well. He took a full-time job with us in Edmonton all the way across the country. He picked up and moved during the pandemic.
He proceeded to be a top performer in our business and then has been elevated to a team lead position with Ontario. I love that because that is somebody that had no experience. He had a degree, was curious, asked the questions, had the work ethic, and was so personable. I knew within five minutes that I was going to hire him. It is awesome to see how he has developed.
Another great example is that there was a rep that I took a chance on. She also had no experience, but she told me in her interview that she had sent twenty messages on LinkedIn to people in the medical device industry to make a connection every single day. She told me that story and I was like, “This person is hungry. She wants to win.” She showed that same curiosity. She has been extremely successful with us as well.
The last story is one of my favorites. This story was told at our national sales meeting. Different people on our team were in tears. The first person I mentioned who got promoted and moved to Edmonton, we still had to cover the remainder of that maternity leave. We hired somebody without an experience. She came in and was very curious, and then she finished her maternity leave cover.
Be Replaceable: Even if you think you’ll not hire the candidate, always give them the full 45 minutes of your time.
We ended up finding her a job virtually covering another maternity leave, even though she lived in a different area of the country. After that finished, we hired her for another maternity leave cover virtually. She continued to cover. She loves our company so much and was so passionate about what she did. Eventually, a position opened up where she lived, which was in Vancouver. She got a full-time job with us. She told us her story about how she wanted to break into sales so badly and she wanted to learn and how we have taken a chance on her.
Sometimes in business, not everything goes your way and you can get caught in a rut. Her name is Krista. I think about how passionate she is to be here and have the opportunity. Sometimes it helps you reset yourself and be like, “Today, I need to put on my most positive face and make sure that I am bringing the right energy because there are people out there that are living their best life, working this job.” It is something that they want to develop further with their careers.
We have to hit our own reset button sometimes. We can focus on the problems or the challenges or the frustrations. We can focus on, “Look how many things I have to be grateful for, including being in this industry, working for this company, and the team I have surrounded myself with.” Once you start to have that, and then you get into interacting with a potential client or touching base with someone who is a client, they pick up on your energy.
My whole premise that we talked about when I was the sales keynote speaker for your team is that people buy your energy. It is up to us to keep that energy and our mindset at the right level of coming from a place of, “You are not another doctor to me. I care about you and I am looking for ways to make you successful and make your patient experience successful. I realize you got your own set of challenges that we might be able to help you with.” I love this.
One of the things I talk about is once you have your own personal story that people can resonate with and helps you attract top talent, it also helps clients feel like this is not something you happened to fall into. This is something you care about and the company’s story. The point is that Bausch + Lomb has a fascinating history of innovation that people may or may not know about and the culture it creates. Can you speak about how you use the Bausch + Lomb story to get the right talent and get the optometrists and doctors you are calling on to see the value of co-branding with you?
[bctt tweet=”Without a good story, you’re just a commodity. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
We are fortunate enough to work for a company that has been around for over 160 years. We have provided a lot of innovation across various different channels over the years. Most of our candidates who interview with our company have already heard of us in some way, shape or form. It brings that value.
When you talk about that history, it gives you that recognition right away where someone can feel proud that they are even interviewing for the company. Within the interview, I got great advice from a previous mentor. Even if you think you are not going to hire the candidate, you always give them the full 45 minutes of your time.
That interview, they might have stayed up all night excited or that this might have been their big break. To me, that is a human respect aspect that I took seriously. They are going to interview for Bausch + Lomb. They probably know the company and had done the research like, “This could be my big opportunity.” The brand does help create that environment. When we think about the progression where we are moving with our company, we are moving in a way where the company has growing pains at times. We are almost on this comeback. Everybody loves a comeback.
It is such a well-known brand. When you are putting a fantastic talent into your team and your system, and then you are launching new products, you have this great brand, it creates an amazing vibe. It allows the reps to passionately tell their story about why they work for Bausch + Lomb and talk about our products passionately or be proud in general. They work for a great company with such great people.
That culture is integrity, flexibility, and going above and beyond the minimum. Even if it is not your job, you still do it. Those kinds of characteristics create a culture of, “This is a fit for me or this is not a fit for me.” The final part of all this is when you are in those sales presentations, instead of talking about numbers and case studies, turning them into case stories that tug at heartstrings to get people to want to open the purse strings of, “This is something I want to buy. You are the rep I want to work with versus a competitor.” Since the talk I gave, have you seen people starting to use stories more? Do you have any stories to share on how it is making a difference?
Be Replaceable: Be understanding of different people’s personal and professional goals, and do your best to support them as a leader. If you do that, that is the difference between people turning around at 4:30 to go home or doing that last call before 5:00.
The reason I originally had engaged you to be our keynote speaker at our national sales meeting was because storytelling has always been a foundational piece of how I have sold myself. I have taught the reps in our business to sell. When you came in and gave your presentation, it gives a structured approach to how you can integrate it and show it a lot of value.
Telling our story is a pivotal part to our business when we think about our strategy overall. When we think contact lenses, they are very commoditized and typically, an optometrist or an eye care professional is doing the contact lens fit. The patient is potentially purchasing from a different channel, and mail-in rebates are used to help keep patients into practice with optometrists doing the fits.
At Bausch + Lomb, we do not do mail-in rebates. Our story is we know there is low redemption and a hassle for the patient. We created a unique strategy. We are the only contact lens company to go this route to give patients instant value and differentiate. That independent eyecare professional who is spending the time to do the contact lens can see the fruits of their labor. As we tell that story to support independent optometry, so many great things get layered in. If you do not tell the story correctly, one of our customers might look at us and say, “You guys do not have rebates.”
If I see the reps expand the story and have seen it expand even further after the presentation you gave, they tell that story to the why. Why do we do this? We do this to support you because we want your patients to buy from you. We know that they take your brand recommendation. This is how we are going to support independent optometry to make sure they are also purchasing from your practice. It allows us to show our agility as a smaller company with a team that is passionate about what they do and everybody is behind the strategy. The storytelling part is key because without a good story, then you are a commodity.
That is true in every business. What I love about you embracing the storytelling concepts and structure for your team is it now can become an onboarding tool for the new site. That can not only start learning other people’s case stories to share, but the story of origin of each individual person is a great way for people to start to feel part of the culture of, “Your brother works here. Your sister is an optometrist, and your father taught you this.” They start telling their personal stories of what their childhood was like or their first experience wearing contacts. Whatever it is that makes them so passionate about this. Stories bond the team when people feel seen and heard and acknowledged.
[bctt tweet=”Stay open to learning and make sure that you stay passionate. If you’re not, you might have to check what you’re doing.” username=”John_Livesay”]
You do a stellar job of making your team feel that way. I see how well you work with the marketing department when you were putting on this sales meeting together in our preparation call. Marketing and sales, when they work in sync and everyone is singing from the same song and books, telling the same stories, expressing the vision in a similar way that, “This is what our brand is,” and what that means to you as an optometrist, it is no surprise you have got the success you have.
It does not come accidentally. It is you going, “Let me fill a gap and take a course in what this marketing stuff’s objectives are, and how that can make me and my sales team better, and that everything is working in conjunction,” that is part of the secret to your success. Do you have any last thoughts or a quote you want to leave us with?
One great thing with everything I have talked about is I talked about developing people and this training program. You mentioned how I worked so well with our marketing team. One thing that we are very proud of is we do a lot of promoting internally. Our marketing team is a team of two. Both of them were people that I took a chance on as reps. They have been promoted through the system.
Our managers and team leads have also been reps in national accounts. It shows the culture of developing from within and building up, which is a key reason why people also are enticed to work for our company. It is fantastic from a cultural standpoint, but also we get amazing support from our HR department.
My last quote is, “Stay open to learning.” Even with my experience, with everything that happens, I was at a training and I overheard it. Someone had been at the company for one week and said the line. I liked the way it sounded. I am going to integrate it into my presentation. I am the National Sales Director.
Make sure that you stay passionate, and if you are not passionate, then you might have to check what you are doing because you should always be passionate about what you are doing. People can tell when you are not. Stay passionate and stay focused. The last thing is always be understanding of different people’s personal and professional goals, and do your best to support it as a leader. If you do that, that is the difference of people turning around at 4:30 PM to go home or doing that last call before 5:00 PM.
That passion and openness are what drive the behavior to go the extra mile for your career and the clients. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. I cannot wait to see where the future takes you and your team. You can be sure that I am going to be watching and cheering you all on.
Thanks so much. I appreciate you having me on the show.
Important Links
- Bausch + Lomb
- https://www.LinkedIn.com/in/michael-van-de-ven-45788545/
- Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course
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What Are The Success Secrets You Need To Know? With Chip Helm
Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments
The success secrets for career and life are more straightforward than you think. John Livesay sits with Chip Helm, a #1 National Bestselling Author & Speaker. Chip talks about how it all comes down to treating people right. When you do what you said when you said you would, money will come. Join in the conversation to discover more success secrets you’ll need. Remember, mentors don’t find you. You find mentors. So don’t miss out on this episode!
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Listen to the podcast here
What Are The Success Secrets You Need To Know? With Chip Helm
Our guest on the show is Chip Helm who has expertise in sales in the med-tech world. He’s also the author of two books. We get into a big discussion about how mentors don’t find you, you find mentors. We talk about what soft skills are, not just storytelling, listening, and empathy but also humility. He puts a nice twist on the concept of treating people like they want to be treated. Enjoy the episode.
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Our guest is Chip Helm, an author, a speaker, a sales leader, and a consultant. He has more than 36 years of experience in sales leadership in the med-tech and life science industries. As a National Sales Manager for a multimillion-dollar medical device company, Chip helped seed and grow a standalone business unit from $0 to $50 million. Chip has honed his expertise and sales skills from the ground up starting as a District Manager who consistently ranked number 1 or 2 on the team and delivered $1 million in revenue year-over-year.
He’s worked alongside clinicians practicing medicine in fourteen different specialties and has established a robust network of genuine relationships across disciplines, physicians, associates, and academic institutions. He supported physicians with the development and launch of medical devices that advanced patient care and improved outcomes. He’s a national bestselling author of two books, Everyday Sales Wisdom for Your Life & Career and Bigger than Sales: How Humility and Relationships Build Career Success. Welcome to the show, Chip.
Thank you. It’s an honor, John. We just met and it is quite an honor to be on your show.
I’m glad to have you. You certainly have an impressive career, an MBA from South Florida. You have a quote that I love, which is, “No matter the career you have chosen, you are in sales.” Let’s talk about that as we tap into your own story of origin. Take us back to your childhood or when you decided to major in Biology. When did you come to that realization that we are all in sales?
It’s funny. I started early on that all I wanted to do growing up was be a dentist and orthodontist like my father. I strived on it. I worked hard in high school and college. That’s all I wanted to do. I want to be like my dad. I’ve got lucky. I’ve got accepted to Indiana University School of Dentistry, and the world turned upside down on me. It wasn’t the academic part of dental school.
Success Secrets: It doesn’t matter what you do in your career; you are in sales.
Three years into my dental school training, I found out that I didn’t have good small motor skills. I remember the day. It was June 15th. It was my dad’s birthday. I came home and bought him a card. We sat down together and he opened up the car. He and I cried because I said, “Dad, I’m sorry, I have let you down. I don’t think I can become a good dentist and I’m probably not going to be able to continue in dental school.” He goes, “I never knew.” I said, “I couldn’t tell you because I tried so hard and wanted it badly.”
What was interesting was there was a mentor and I believe that mentors. Like a quote for me in one of my Chipisms, “They don’t find you but you find mentors.” A guy named Bill Armstrong from Indiana University was a mentor and he said, “Chip, you’ve got great communication skills. I remember stories of people telling me that they would come to your dental clinic. The mothers and fathers with these kids, all the way down the hallway around the corner, outside waiting to come into your dental clinic because of your communication skills in a way that you connected with people.” I said, “Really?” He says, “There’s a medical company that would be good.”
I went through the interviewing process. Many years later, I have worked for the same medical company. He made a statement and he goes, “You would be good in sales.” “Into sales? What sales?” Back when I was growing up, there was no sales education. There was no diploma for sales like there is now. There’s nothing like that. What I have learned is it doesn’t matter what you do for your career. I don’t care if you are an IT or in marketing. I don’t care if you’re an entrepreneur. I don’t care if you wash dishes or a bartender. You are always communicating. Everyone is in sales.
You are either selling yourself every day, selling a widget or a concept. For me, I’m trying to sell my wife half the time. That doesn’t work well, so there you go. In a nutshell, bringing that together, I have always believed that no matter what you are doing in your career, you are in sales. The problem is, that is a myth to a lot of people. Most people in this country believe that if you don’t have sales in your title, then you are not in sales. I have been going around for the last few years trying to provide that message to everyone I can talk to. It doesn’t matter what you do in your career, you are in sales.
The irony from your bio is that one of your children became a dentist, is that correct?
It’s interesting to say that. My oldest is an orthopedic surgery resident at UT Houston. My daughter is a veterinarian. Last but not least, my football player, Sam, is in dental school at Indiana University and wants to become an orthodontist like his grandfather.
[bctt tweet=”Do everything humanly possible to help people.” username=”John_Livesay”]
I love that it still runs in the family. We discussed before the show that I also thought I wanted to be a dentist when I was ten years old. I liked my dentist. As a kid, I thought that was a great job and my parents gave me a model tooth. I went into pre-dentistry and didn’t get as far as you did. I thought, “I don’t think I’m good with my hands either.”
I took a Sculpting class. That’s where I first was introduced to the concept of negative space. Between that and the Biochemistry, I went, “I’m out.” It is devastating when you are young because you don’t have a frame of reference. You make a decision, “I’m going to do this,” and you put your nose to the grindstone, and years later, you go, “I have to reinvent myself.”
Little did I know that I would have to reinvent myself much later in my career when I’ve got laid off from a sales job. This concept of reinvention and resilience is something I wanted to ask you about, especially now that you are a parent of grown children and you see this as a sales keynote speaker yourself. How do you help people become resilient? Sales, as we know, is a lot of rejection.
When you become resilient, it’s all in your heart. When you do things with the right intent and in the right heart, most of the time, you will go down the right path. You may not get to where you are going, may not become a CEO, may not be exactly where, God willing, you want to go but if you do things with the right heart and intent, then you will find that resilience. Most people in this country don’t have passions. If you can discover and uncover your passion, I have three and I’m lucky, then you never will have a job.
To this day, my wife’s like, “My husband wakes up with a huge smile on his face and it cracks me up. He wants to get up in the morning and wants to go to work.” It’s not work for me. I haven’t had a job in over 37 years. It’s a combination of uncovering and discovering your passions. It’s also a combination of being genuine, heartfelt, and doing things with the right intent and heart. Hopefully, you come across with that humility, that sincerity to people. You will reach your goal of where you want to go.
In your book, Everyday Sales Wisdom for Your Life Career, I resonated with the concept of how important it is to communicate soft skills. As a storytelling keynote speaker myself, I’m constantly talking to people about how soft skills make you strong. For me, soft skills are storytelling, listening, and empathy. I would love to know if there’s anything else you put into that list. If so, what other soft skills do you see people need?
Everyday Sales Wisdom for Your Life & Career
First of all, it’s not what you say to people. It’s how you say things to people. People don’t understand that you don’t have to have a firm fist. You can talk with kindness and it’s your voice, you raise your tone. It’s not what you say to someone. I like to repeat things because if you repeat things, that means it stays with you. It’s important and you will take adherence to it. You are right in that list of empathy and sympathy. The Golden Rule says, “Treat people like you want to be treated.” Chip’s Golden Rule is, “Treat people how they want to be treated.”
I have a great friend of mine who’s a president of a big car dealership here in Bloomington, Indiana. Here’s how you put it. He goes, “Treat your employees like you want your employees to treat your customers.” You can’t say it better than that. It starts at the top and moves down for any kind of corporation, company or whatever you do for your career. We don’t have enough of what I call humility in this country.
How we look at things and put other people’s thoughts first is the old servant leadership but it’s more than that. Do you care about the other person? Do you want that person to be successful? Do you want to mentor that person? I’m big in mentoring. That’s part of what you are talking about as far as soft skills. I like the word soft skills. There are a lot of people who don’t like to use that word but I believe it’s right and spot on to use soft skills in how you talk to people, what you say to people, how you listen to someone, and how you put them first.
Always think about the other person and learn about that other person. I will leave you one thing and you can continue. One of the greatest leaders that you could ever be is the one that from day one, always wants you to get you from A to Z. If you want to become a vice president or whatever you want to do in your company, that person, that leader is more worried about getting you into that position than they are worried about their own career.
Would you say that soft skills are those three things I mentioned, empathy, listening, and storytelling?
Yes. I would say that as well. You can say sympathy. You can add on whether or not you are storytelling or listening but it’s how you speak to someone. How do you tell someone that there’s a difficult situation? How do you tell someone that you have to fire them or maybe they are not getting promoted this year? Can you do that with kindness, humility, and caring about them in your voice? How do you do it versus using a hard fist on the table with raising your voice or being quick with them?
I have always said, “If they walk into your office on Tuesday and ask you a question and you give me an answer, if I walk back in in your office on Thursday and ask you the same question, you better give me the same answer.” What I mean is being consistent with your colleagues, friends, and employees. Be consistent in how you react to things. That is correct communication.
[bctt tweet=”Treat people the way they want to be treated.” username=”John_Livesay”]
In your other book, Bigger than Sales: How Humility and Relationships Build Career Success, you alluded to humility earlier, we could probably put that under the category of soft skills. There’s so much belief that nice people finish last. I interviewed Tim Sanders who said, “Nice smart people are successful. Nice doesn’t mean you are weak, not prepared or all that stuff.”
What is your thought around people who need to change their beliefs to be a little humble? It’s like, “If I’m humble, it’s a sign of weakness. Buyers are going to take advantage of me and I will be walked over in my career.” There’s so much fear around that you have shown that’s not the case. What advice do you give people on that?
First of all, if I’m dating someone and a girl tells another friend that I’m nice, that’s not a good thing. In dating someone, if a woman told that you are too nice, means I probably won’t end up having a relationship and spending too much time with that person again. When it concerns how you treat people, building relationships, networking, and caring about what you do, the humble part needs to be there, whether you call it being nice. I call it being true to yourself and honest, as a day as long.
I always said two things that I would pray and talk about when I went to bed at nighttime. One is I would say to myself, “Did I not screw someone over today?” In my years in this industry, I have never screwed anybody over. The second thing is I would say to myself, “Did I do everything humanly possible to help the people, my company or the patients today?” Whatever business I’m in. I was in the medical business, so it’s like, “Did I help more patients get back to the community and get back to people?” That’s how I treat it.
It’s funny, what you said is some of the nice guys finish last, smart guys finish last or however you put it. The problem is when you are true to yourself and you are totally honest, you care. You take things a lot more personally than most people. The bottom line is you may not get to where you are going. You may not become what you want to become or what you think you need to become but only the man upstairs knows that. My opinion is, do it right.
A CEO of a company says to me, “Do things the right way and you will be fine.” I have always led my life that way personally and professionally. Maybe that’s why people always ask me about how I came out with the three kids, how they ended up where they were, etc. I don’t know if I answered your question per se but I’m a firm believer in honesty, sincerity, gentleness, and doing things the right way, not screwing people over. I have been screwed over my career and my life, so I do understand both sides.
Bigger Than Sales: How Humility and Relationships Build Career Success
You have also managed salespeople in your career. What similarities do you see in doing that versus raising children?
It’s a great thing to be patient, put yourself in their shoes, be kind, and listen more than you probably would ever listen. Also, sometimes you have to be truthfully honest. I always say this, “You may not like or agree with what I’m going to say but if you want my true and honest opinion, I will give it to you. Let’s leave it at that.”
Meaning, it doesn’t mean we have to agree. We can agree to disagree or you may not like it but I’m not going to tell you something that I haven’t been there, done there, and had taken the test. I’m going to tell you because I have been there, done there, and had taken the test. I’m not trying to tell you something I haven’t gone through already. I’m trying to minimize and lessen your pain to help you.
The old way of selling was always be closing and pushing. I created a new acronym called ABK, which is Always Be Kind. Since you mentioned kindness, you and I are simpatico on so many levels because we approach selling in life in general from that standpoint. It has to start with what we say to ourselves, that negative self-talk. You must have seen some salespeople or even your own children start beating themselves up with some self-talk. Have you been able to notice it and help them not keep doing it?
I have worn a positive blue band for years from Butler University in Indiana cancer patient. A lot of times, even Chip who’s usually mostly happy, a go-getter, and smiling all the time, struggled too with always being positive. I utilize this band a lot and we look down and say, “Stay positive, Chip.” When things get tough, the tough get going. Positivity breeds positivity. Negativity breeds negativity. One solution is you hope that you try not to hang out with negative people. Stay away from it as much as you can. It doesn’t do any good for yourself.
Number two, look at the glass half full and not glass half empty. There was a study done a while ago that most people look at the glass as half empty. That means they are pessimistic. If it rains on Tuesday, they believe it’s going to rain the following Tuesday. I hate to tell the story about my sister-in-law. I love her to death but she had come to visit me, John. By the time I was done, she took me to drink. I had to go upstairs and start drinking. I had to go downstairs and start drinking because I had to get away from the negativity. She was negative. I don’t want to spend too much time around negative people when I don’t have to, at least I’m trying.
There’s this great line about, “We are the sum total of the five people we spend the most time with.” You must have seen that as a parent. If your children tend to get with the wrong peers, that can be a danger for their future.
They drove their goals. There’s never a plan B. I like that in life. I never had a plan B. It doesn’t mean that I didn’t have to change course and go down a different path when I didn’t get dental school but I didn’t have a plan B. They never had a plan B. My older son wouldn’t know what to do if he didn’t become a doctor. It’s the same with a veterinarian. They never talked about a plan B. I believe in going for your goals. I don’t have a plan B but if it doesn’t work in Plan A, something will come up.
[bctt tweet=”Humility is a skill. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
Both of us, our plan A was to be a dentist and it didn’t work out for us but it didn’t mean we weren’t committed. It brings up something that is crucial for everyone reading, whether you want to say you are in sales or not. When you decide to do something, interview for a job, write a book or whatever it is, go for it 100%. Give it your best.
I was doing all this work and effort to get a job and they are like, “You are putting yourself out there. What if you don’t get it? You are going to feel so disappointed.” I would rather do a medium effort. If I don’t get it, I don’t feel bad because I didn’t try so hard. I thought, “What a bizarre way to go through life.” They explained to me that they can’t tolerate the pain of getting a no if they have tried their hardest but they don’t end up winning because they are not giving heart. It’s this vicious cycle.
I told my kids, “If you want to get to medical school or vet school, this job, or you want to get there, there are a lot of things in between that you are not going to like. It’s a means to an end.” It doesn’t matter that everything in between, you are going to like it at all but that’s okay. If you know what the game is and how to get over there to that end result, there are lots of things you are going to do in your life that you are not going to like that much. If you want to get to the end where you are going to like it, sometimes you have to go do it, realizing that you are not going to enjoy and like it but if you get through it, you will get the carrot at the end. It will become your rainbow there at the end.
Any last thought or quote that you want to leave us with, Chip?
I’m big on this. It doesn’t seem to happen across the industry. I’m big about following up. Following through is equal to success. Most people don’t set an urgency behavior because user behavior changes to get back to people by email, text, and phone. People want to be acknowledged. You don’t have to have any answers. They want to be acknowledged and it starts from the top down in any culture.
What I would end with is, do what you say you are going to do and do it when you say you are going to do it. You will count all the money you couldn’t accumulate. The money is going to come rolling in, and you can sit in the Bahamas and count it. If you do what you say that you are going to do and do it when you say you are going to do it, then you are going to win it. It doesn’t matter what you do for your life, your career, what business, and what direction you go.
Success Secrets: Positivity breeds positivity, while negativity breeds negativity.
You helped us reframe what winning is. I love it. If people want to reach out to you as a consultant or a speaker, where should they go?
I have a website, ChipHelm.com. A sneak preview, I am bringing out a new book. It’s going to be more of a business book. We probably talked about a couple of things on the show because some of the things that we accomplished with our kids will be part of that business book, as I think it applies to any business. I’m also accessible by email, [email protected]. People call me all the time at (812) 947-3588. My books are up on Amazon.
I hope they make a difference even if it’s for one person. They are short and easy reads. It sounds like John did his homework or something, and before I came on, I was impressed, on understanding. Probably my biggest thing that connected me to it is what I call KISS, Keep It Simple and Sweet. That’s how I lead personally and professionally. That’s it for me. It’s simple. Sales and careers are not rocket science but we all are in that game of sales. I’m sorry for anyone reading who disagrees.
You remind me of that Einstein quote that said, “If you can’t explain it, you simply don’t understand it.” It’s important. It shows your mastery at something when you can keep it simple and sweet. Thank you so much for joining us, Chip. It has been a pleasure.
Thank you, John. I appreciate you, too.
Important Links
- Chip Helm
- Everyday Sales Wisdom for Your Life & Career
- Bigger than Sales: How Humility and Relationships Build Career Success
- Tim Sanders – Past episode
- [email protected]
- Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course
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The Influencer: Secrets To Success And Happiness With Brian Ahearn
Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments
Developing your ability to influence people is crucial to success and happiness. Your business needs to have a solid foundation, and you also have to know how to widen your network. Join John Livesay as he talks with Brian Ahearn on the science behind the influence process. Brian is a dynamic international keynote speaker, author, coach, and consultant. He specializes in applying the science of influence in everyday situations. Tune in to discover how to recognize powerful opportunities and influence people!
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Listen to the podcast here
The Influencer: Secrets To Success And Happiness With Brian Ahearn
Our guest is Brian Ahearn, a return guest from October of 2020. When he reached out to me and said that he has a new book called The Influencer: Secrets to Success and Happiness, that is a business parable and follows the life of John Andrews, who’s an ordinary person who becomes an extraordinary influencer as he learns from coaches, mentors, and clients. I thought to myself, “I need to have Brian back on.” I, myself, have written a fable. What he is doing is using the storytelling format to reach a new set of readers. It is about applying what is in The Influencer book on the impact that influence can have both professionally and personally.
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Brian, welcome back to the show.
John, I appreciate you having me on. It’s good to talk to you again.
I know that one of the things that excited you about this book is that nearly every character is based on a real person that you have learned something from. What a great combination of your life’s work? I know what that feels like. You think I couldn’t have written this book several years ago, and I couldn’t have done it.
Absolutely. I didn’t start out writing the book with that in mind, but I started to quickly realize, “This character is based on Loring, Ben or Dwayne.” I started utilizing those first names so I could clearly visualize them, but it was an honor to share with the world the things that these people taught me that were so helpful on a professional and a personal level.
For those who haven’t read your episode from October 2020, give us a little snippet of your own story of origin. You can parallel that with the book as well. You do an amazing analysis and research to give some exposition on who this lead character is. I wonder if any of those things mirror your own story of origin.
The Influencer: Secrets to Success and Happiness
They do mirror my story. I had people ask me, “Is this your story?” Its bits and pieces are. For example, when John goes off to college, he takes a Psychology class as a freshman, which has a big impact on him. That happened to me. I didn’t come across influence, but I do clearly remember that class. It obviously had a big impact, but John is a lot smarter than I was. The things that he learns, he lays hold of and puts into practice so that he starts reaping the benefits.
It took me a lot longer to figure that part of the game. Certain things do parallel. Many of the things that he learns throughout the book are things that I learned from significant people, coaches, clients and mentors throughout the course of my life. To go back to that episode in 2020 and let people know my area of expertise is the science of influence. I look at the decades of research from Social Psychology and Behavioral Economics. I look at ways to put that into practice to help clients get to yes more often. That usually means, on a personal level, a lot more success when you are in the office and usually a lot more happiness at home when people are more willingly saying yes to you.
As a storytelling keynote speaker, what I have found is that when people learn how to tell better stories, it not only helps them in their sales career, it helps them in their personal life. You do such a great job in this book of showing how the two things work in this character’s life. Can you give us a little snippet of when you fix, learn, or improve one area of your life? It is not in a siloed, “This only helps me in my career.”
I think it takes creativity to figure out how to take some of the silos and combine them. As a personal example, I’m a disciplined individual. It came from sports at a young age, football, weightlifting, running marathons, and things like that. It took me a while to figure out how do I take that silo and put it into my career to have more success. Once I figured it out, all of a sudden, especially as I stepped out on my own a few years ago, it has never been hard for me to get up early, put my head down, and put in 8 or 10 hours a day towards the business where a lot of people might say, “I would not have that self-motivation.”
That is a personal thing for me. In the book, I tried to help the character as he learns these bits and pieces. He has got this vision of what he is trying to put together in this puzzle. He doesn’t know what the picture is going to be ultimately, but he knows that these snippets of ideas that are helping him somehow have to come together to form a philosophy of life. At the end of the book, he completes the puzzle and knows what that picture is.
One of the intersections of what your work and my work is people inevitably get this objection, which is, “I don’t feel like I’m ready to make a decision right now. I need to think it over.” You have helped people come up with some things to either avoid that from happening or what to say when it does happen. Can you give us some insight on that?
I think a great way of avoiding that is very early in the sales process. John, the lead character, is a medical supply sales rep. When you understand the principle of consistency, it tells us that we feel an internal psychological pressure and external social pressure to be consistent in what we say and what we do. The bottom line, we feel better about ourselves when our words and deeds line up.
[bctt tweet=”Don’t say ‘no problem’ after someone thanks you. Give people everything they need upfront to make saying yes easier.” username=”John_Livesay”]
If a salesperson learns to ask the right questions early on, when you get to the point where you are trying to close the sale, it becomes much easier because you can reference back to. For example, “John, when we initially talked, you told me that you needed this particular price, timing, and these terms in the contract. It looks like we have done all of that and a little bit more. Go ahead and start working on the paperwork and consummate this deal.”
It becomes much harder for you to say, “Let me think about it.” It is not that you want to remove yourself from the situation. There is always a little bit of fear when you are making a change and a purchase. Learning how to ask those questions to trigger this principle of consistency allows somebody to feel good about themselves by saying yes because they are only responding that you have done everything you said you would.
The other thing that almost all of us have happened to us at one time or another, especially if there is some emotion involved in it, like if someone is breaking up with you, for example. They said, “It was never my intention to hurt you.” I know this happened to me exactly. At that time, I found that so unsatisfying of an answer and I thought, “Why is that not landing as a sincere apology or making me feel any better?”
Someone said later, “Wouldn’t it have been great if you could have said back? I’m sure it wasn’t your intention to make me feel loved by that behavior either.” I didn’t have that in my repertoire to say when it happened to me. You talk about almost all of us having that situation where we go, “I should have said this instead of that or not saying anything.” What do you show in the book that helps us with these situations?
This guy, John, is a smart and good person, down to the poor, which most people are. We want to do the right thing. He does run into situations where he ends up hurting his wife because he is making some decisions without consulting her. She was looking at this like, “This is a partnership, and you may not think this is important, but I’m not even in on the decision-making.”
He does feel bad about it, but he continues to make this mistake at times. It is never to hurt. He sometimes feels boxed into a decision, and all of a sudden, he is responding. I will say that he begins to learn his lesson, and that makes things better, having to sit down with somebody in a situation like that and not try to defend why you did what you did because we all have reasons to be able to say, “I am so sorry. It was never my intention. Here is what went on with me. I hope you can forgive me.”
That is an integral part of having relationships being able to say you are sorry and asking for forgiveness. I think asking for forgiveness is important. We could think that everything is okay because we apologize and have not gotten confirmation from the other person that they are okay. I think it is important to admit the mistake and then say, “Can you forgive me?” If that person says yes, you are in harmony. If they say, “This is going to take some time,” then you have got to be patient.
Influencing People: It takes creativity to figure out how to take some of the silos and combine them as a personal example.
I think what the frustration was, at least, for me, and I see it in other situations where it is not that big of a dramatic moment, but it is when someone doesn’t want to own responsibility for what they did or the outcome. The fact that it wasn’t my intention to hurt you means I’m off the hook. There is nothing to even ask for forgiveness for because it wasn’t my intention. I think in a business situation, it is the same thing because I have worked with clients that have lost clients and tried to win them back. We have to do the same thing as we do in our personal relationships and own that we made a mistake, explain what we are going to do, that it doesn’t happen again and have some empathy for what that other person is feeling.
The other part of what you do so well is when someone is looking for a sales keynote speaker. They typically do a Google search. Oftentimes, I have come up against a couple of other speakers. They had a meeting and interviewed the final three candidates and looked at our videos and our books. Sometimes, as many as 8 or 10 people have to agree on who is going to be the speaker. You hoped you had created somebody in there that is going to be your internal champion to rally for you. No matter what the decision is, getting a consensus can be challenging with a team. What kinds of tips are we going to learn from your Influencer book?
When you are going into a situation like that, try to discern, first of all, is this person the decision-maker, or there going to be other individuals who are part of it? Can you get some of those other individuals on the call? For example, I had the second call with a client. The first there was the lead-in, but we had a call with that lead-in’s boss and a peer of the boss. There are still other people that are going to make the decision. I know that now having a positive influence on three different decision-makers and being able to speak their language in the middle of that sales conversation gives them confidence that this guy knows what he is talking about and he can relate to us.
Three people will be a lot better for ultimately making that decision than if I had that single individual. Discerning who the decision-maker is and doing what you can to bring in other people also asking, if you and I were having the conversation and I might say, “John, it is a great conversation. I’m excited about the potential opportunity to work. Who else will you be talking with? What can I give you beyond the conversation to support your recommendation for me as a speaker?”
If it is that bio, the customer list, the videos, and all of that stuff are usually out there for any speaker. My goal is to make your life a little easier and directly give you that information so that you are ready at that moment to say, “I talked to the person, look at the list. Let’s watch this five-minute video and get that traction.”
I think that is so valuable. Sometimes you get hired because you are easy to work with, given everything else is the same. The simplest things of, “You are connecting the dots for me. I don’t have to go searching for something, or you have some empathy and are trying to put yourself in my shoes going, “You might need this. I’m happy to send it to you. You don’t have to spend five minutes looking for it,” or whatever it might be. Those little things do add up.
I had a client in 2021. I’m very diligent about staying on top of the email. When I would email that person, they are like, “Thank you so much for getting back to me quickly.” I said, “Part of my job is to make your job easy.” She was like, “You would not believe how many people don’t do that or hard to get ahold of. They don’t get me information.”
[bctt tweet=”An integral part of having relationships is being able to say you’re sorry and ask for forgiveness.” username=”John_Livesay”]
I also know this when I get something. If she had said, “Give me the bio, the customer lists, and a link to a video,” I almost always would put in the beginning, “Name as promised to make what you need.” It is only highlighting that, “Brian is a guy who does what he says he will do.” Those little bits continually work on somebody. That is when they look for a speaker again, and they say, “This person was great on stage. They were so easy to work with.” They want you back.
It is that whole thing of pre-suasion that you are such an expert at. You are reinforcing, as promised, is a subtle subconscious thing of almost edifying yourself that you keep your promises.
If you go into a store, you may have a wonderful experience, but it can be reinforced when that person says something about, “We hope you had a great experience shopping here now,” or the server who comes up. The server, like in a restaurant, should never, ever, come up and say, “Is the food okay?” Nobody goes to a restaurant for okayed food.
That is all we are aiming for.
Is the food delicious? If you come back and say, “Delicious,” you have convinced yourself that this is pretty good. I should probably come back. If it is not, they have an opportunity to say, “I am so sorry. What can I do to change this? Can you bring it back and have it warmed up or something like that?” That act becomes viewed as reciprocity, “That server was nice.” He or she went out of their way to make sure this was warmed up. I’m going to tip them a little more and come back here. Those little interactions back to that customer mean a lot.
I had an experience of this personally. I was in New York to go see some Broadway shows. You now have to stand in line to show your ID and vaccination and then another line to show your tickets. You are standing outside. It is cold and winter. They have those people saying, “Welcome back to Broadway.” Suddenly, everyone is happy in the line. You don’t mind the cold. You are excited to see a show that you have seen for many months. That one phrase said by the people who are running the line made a whole energy shift for everyone to remember why they are there. You have a great story in here about a major insurance company that was able to recover from a $700,000 mistake with post-it notes. Please share what that is.
The first book that I wrote, Influence PEOPLE: The Powerful Everyday Opportunities to Persuade that are Lasting and Ethical, looks at a lot of business case studies. There was a piece of research that intrigued me. It was around a company trying to increase the response rate for a survey they sent out. When they sent the survey out with a cover letter, I think 36% of the people responded. When they put a little handwritten note on the cover letter, it bumped it up to 48%. Taking a little extra time to sign that personally and put a little note on there increased the response rate, but in a third variation, they put a yellow sticky note. They had the same handwritten note that had been on the cover letter before.
Influencing People: There’s always a little bit of fear when you’re making a change and you’re making a purchase.
The response rate was 75%. They more than doubled it. When people hear that, they are fascinated, but they don’t always know how to put it into practice. At the company that I used to work for several years, I would come back from an extended Christmas break, and almost immediately, I was called into a room with half a dozen people. “Here is the situation we face, John. We had overpaid insurance agents in one of our operating states, $700,000 in total, 150 agents had their commission for the month of December doubled. We needed to get the money back because, at the end of January, we were going to be paying year-end bonuses to those agents. It would be nice to have an extra $700,000.”
As we strategized about it, we didn’t have the ability to go in electronically and take the money out. We were going to have to inform them that there had been a mistake and ask them to write a check. That is no easy task. If you get a letter that says, “John, I’m so sorry, but we overpaid you $5,000 last month, would you sit down and write us a check right away?”
That is where cold calling becomes more appealing than writing the $5,000. The head of accounting had been through some of my training, and I turned to him and said, “Steve, remember what I taught you guys about the sticky notes?” He said, “Yeah.” I said, “When you send out that letter that talks about the mistake and asks for the money back, make sure you put a sticky note on every one of those, personally sign it or put a little note.” He said, “I will do it.”
It was a couple of weeks later, I called them up, and I asked, “How was the collection going?” His exact words were, “John, I’m floored.” I said, “Why?” He goes, “We have already gotten money back from 130 of the 150.” The optimist in me said, “You mean we didn’t get it all back?” He laughed at me and went, “We are talking about money because I get them to say, ‘Take it out of next month’s commission, put me on a payment plan’ or anything, but ‘Sit down and write the check.’”
When we had lunch a few months later, we had collected in full from 147 of the 150. This is a hardcore accounting, black and white numbers guy, and your sales staff is BS. I don’t believe in that. He believed in the use of yellow sticky notes. He was a believer after that because he knew that was a radical change in behavior from these people to pay us that money back.
When you go, the extra effort to other people is a great way to end the episode. The book itself again is Influence PEOPLE: The Powerful Everyday Opportunities to Persuade that are Lasting and Ethical. It is on Amazon, but this concept of the unrecognized power of saying thanks and responding properly to thanks, there are two questions in that. One is, saying thanks, how is that unrecognized as a good thing to do? The second part of it is, when someone thanks you, there is a proper way to respond as opposed to maybe, “You’re welcome,” not saying anything or a smile. Let’s take the first part of that question. Are most people not aware that there is power in saying thanks, and that is why they don’t do it?
[bctt tweet=”Having positive influence on different decision makers and being able to speak their language in the middle of that sales conversation is important.” username=”John_Livesay”]
I think what you or I might have called good manners as we were growing up had gone by the wayside. I have always found that, for example, if somebody asks me something and I say, “Yes, please or no, thank you,” I have a lot of people go, “It is so nice to interact with somebody who has manners.” I will say, “My mom raised me right.” The story that I put in the book was about a man named Lieutenant Murphy who was a Navy SEAL and was killed in action.
He had to make a call back to base and expose himself on a rock. He knew he was going to die and be shot. In the middle of that, he called for airstrikes and said, “Thank you,” at the end of the call. The individual who relayed the story, a commanding officer, said, “That is the man that he was,” in the middle of a firefight and he did lose his life. My point with sharing the story is if he can find the time, life and death situation, to say, “Thank you,” then we all should.
It acknowledges that other person like, “I appreciate what you have done.” On the flip side, the other story and that you asked about how we respond to that, we never wanted to dismiss somebody’s thanks to you. When somebody says, “No problem. No big deal. No worries,” you are de-valuing what somebody felt like was valuable. The proper way when somebody says “thank you” is to say something like, “John, that is what partners do for each other. You helped me. I will help you. I’m happy to do this.”
If you want to be funny, sometimes I have said this, “It would have killed an ordinary man, but you were worth it.” Something that acknowledges you heard them. You had put forth an effort and I appreciate what they did. It is the grease of the wheels that make our relationships better. Little things like that make customers want to come back because they feel good about the transaction.
I want to thank you publicly, but most people won’t be able to see what I see, which is you did something very personalized and customized as you have a monitor with my show’s image logo. It says, “Hello, John,” on it. I have done over 350 episodes. It also shows pictures of your wonderful books. I have never had a guest do that ever.
I appreciate you saying that. I joke with people, I say, “Everybody should have their name in lights once a day,” but I’m a fast learner like John was in the book, The Influencer. Once I see that something means something to people, I make it a point to go out and make sure that I recognize and prepare for the time that we are going to spend together. It is a wonderful selling tool, too, because then people ask questions. I can stand up and talk about the virtual studio that I put in because of the pandemic. It creates a win for everybody.
Any last thought? Obviously, if people want to reach out to you, they can go where?
Influencing People: Learning how to ask questions to trigger the principle of consistency allows somebody to feel good about themselves by saying yes.
The best place to go to start is LinkedIn because I post a lot of content. If you reach out to me and don’t tell me how you found me, guaranteed, I will come back and say, “How did you find me?” I like to know why people reach out. It allows us to have a little bit of interaction. It makes social media social. If you let me know how you found me, I will still say “thank you,” and we will have a little interaction. You are going to get some one-on-one.
The other place would be my website, which is InfluencePeople.biz. There you find links to the books. You can see previews of my LinkedIn learning courses and all kinds of other information. I have been blogging weekly for several years. There are a ton of free resources available if you are a reader, and I have been on well over 100 podcasts. If you want to listen to podcasts, there are lots that are listed there.
Thanks for sharing your wonderful wisdom and fable. It is a fun way to improve our skills in becoming better influencers and having better connections with people.
Thank you, John. I appreciate you having me on the show. It was great to chat with you, and hopefully, as we get out of the pandemic, we might find each other at the same venues speaking to some audiences.
That would be terrific. I look forward to that day. Thanks again, Brian.
Important Links
- Brian Ahearn – Previous Episode
- The Influencer: Secrets to Success and Happiness
- Influence PEOPLE: The Powerful Everyday Opportunities to Persuade that are Lasting and Ethical
- LinkedIn – Brian Ahearn
- InfluencePeople.biz
- Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course
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