Today’s guest on The Successful Pitch is Ian Garlic, who is an expert at digital video storytelling. And he combines that with his expertise in SEO as well as website design, and allows people to tell their story in a way that’s authentic, and pulls people in. I’m all about the storytelling when you pitch, and he takes it to the level of creating videos that do that for his clients. So you’re gonna really want to listen in on how to do that. He said stories really are what sell, and not so much a testimonial. And that great video storytelling is all about great timing. And he shares the secrets and the mistakes to avoid when you’re doing search engine optimization. You’ll want to be sure to listen in on his wisdom on that and more. The interview begins in 45 seconds, right after this information on how hosting a podcast can grow your business.
Listen To The Episode Here
Video Storytelling That Sells with Ian Garlic
Hello and welcome to The Successful Pitch podcast. Today’s guest is Ian Garlic who is an online video storytelling expert. And as if that’s not enough he has this amazing podcast called the Garlic Marketing Show. And the tagline on that has got to be one of the best taglines I’ve ever heard. “Stories and strategies that don’t stink” with a picture of garlic on it, brilliant. Ian, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, it’s awesome to be a guest on a show.
Yes because you know, you go back and forth host, guest, host, guest. People say, “Oh, what’s easier? What’s harder?” You know, it’s different amounts of preparation I think is the key there. But let’s start there. What’s your favorite thing to do, be a host or be a guest?
With our agency Authentic Web, I’ve been interviewing people now for about ten years, on video. I love the interview process, I love to talk to people about business. I’m really, really bad at small talk. So the podcast really allows me to just get right to the point and talk to people, and then the small talk comes. What I found out is actually it’s a sign of introversion, that you do small talk on the end.
Yeah. So yeah, I like both. I don’t like talking about myself too much but when it comes to talking business and marketing, I love talking about it.
Got it. Well on your site, which is different than your agency’s site, there’s lots of different ways to find you, IanGarlic.com. Can you talk about your own story and you have of course a video telling that story, your love of stories and how you got there. So because this is an audio podcast and not a video one, can you tell us how did you start to love stories as much as I do? I love that about you.
I always loved film to a certain, when I was a kid I always loved it. I think back and this is probably the first time I’ve told it but I always loved to tell jokes when I was a kid, so there was always that element. I remember when I was like four or five years old telling these horrible jokes. Probably my jokes are still horrible but I think they’re funny now.
But really when I was working in marketing and I was working for a Fortune 100 company. I was doing marketing consulting and we kept doing like kind of the same marketing over and over again, not in a bad way. It worked, it just wasn’t awesome. And I was like, “How do I help these people stand out?” And then one day I realized, I’m like every single one of these people really has a different story to tell, and their stories are so interesting.
When you tell your story then you enjoy your business more because the people that connect with your story connect with you. Instead of just trying to do the same thing as everyone else competing, we all tell a different story, and all of a sudden you’re attracting the people you like to work with and you’re being true to yourself. And that’s where we came up with the name Authentic Web, because it’s really about telling the story. When you do that, you have your authenticity there, you enjoy your business more, it grows better, and you serve people better.
What do you think makes a good story when you’re doing it in a video format?
So for us, what I’ve found is most business owners, most people are not trained to be on video. I love the documentary style, so that’s a first part. We read people’s faces and it’s a universal human trait, it’s ingrained in us. I think, before, you and I have talked about it but it’s like one of those things, it’s one of those traits that’s deep in there, that we can’t get out, just like storytelling. So I think having that authenticity in their face, being able to read someone’s face and seeing that they truly enjoy what they do is important.
I think also making sure that your stories, for the most part, are in the light of the person you’re trying to help. So it’s like going to a cocktail party. I always tell people, you don’t go and tell your story start to finish. You always listen to someone and you tell the parts of your story that are important and can serve them. And I think that’s incredibly important. A great video story is about timing. That’s actually our slogan, our motto at Authentic Web. It’s “the right story at the right time.”
[Tweet “Great video storytelling is about timing”]
I love that. Well we’re gonna tweet that out. Great video storytelling is all about timing. So that’s a really great thing to keep in mind. So people need, in my opinion, to have a video on their website now. It’s not enough just to have words and pictures. I think that people are consuming content with YouTube and even Instagram lets you put on videos, it’s just everywhere, and that pulls people in. So they need to hire someone like you, especially if they’re a small business, to figure out how to tell their story in a way that stays consistent and authentic to their brand.
Now you say timing is one big thing about having a really great online video story. Do you have a story of a client that you helped that didn’t have a video story and maybe some challenges you helped them overcome along the way?
Yeah, sure. Because I came out of legal marketing, there was a lot of attorneys to begin with. Now we really focus on larger marketing technology companies, but we still work with attorneys. But one of the attorneys, this is one of the things that we found out right away, was … well we didn’t find out right away, we’d been doing it for a while. So backtrack we did a lot of video SEO, search engine optimization for video. Because it helps with the timing, if someone’s looking for something and you put a video in front of them that answers that question because then you’re the expert. Right? So that’s one of the best timing out there because there’s that intent of search and if you answer it, you become their friend.
We were getting clients to the top of really difficult searches. Legal SEO is probably one of the hardest out there. It’s always one of the top five most expensive search terms out there.
Yeah, so it was difficult, and we made good money. I enjoyed it for the most part. So we had these clients, they were getting to the top and what we found was that once in a while one client would make a lot of money, then other client wouldn’t. And you can’t really control what happens after the call as much. I mean we’ve done a lot to develop video funnels and stuff. There’s only so much you can do as the marketer to control the sales process.
But what we learned was, what are some opportunities for me to help sell them more? And I start doing the research and going through websites. I’m good at patterns, I love to identify patterns. I was a hedge fund trader after I graduated from college. So I found that the About Us page is the second most used page on a website.
And if you think about it it makes sense, right?
So you go to the homepage and then you want to know who is this person I might work with? Who’s this company I’m buying from? But a lot of times people just throw their bio up there, right?
The attorneys are bad about just throwing CVs up there. Or companies, even like something cutesy. And they’re like, “Oh this is fun and it’s exciting.” But I’m like that’s your opportunity to sell because someone’s like, “Okay, I like what you’re selling. Do I like you?”
Let’s just take a second and then really underline that. Whether you’re an attorney, whether you’re an architecture design firm, whether you’re a start-up seeking funding, everybody invests and buys from people they like first. More than your big idea, or your service, or your graphic design, or your architecture renderings. So that’s so important for people, it’s a big “aha” for a lot of people. I think you and I intuitively understand that. But then we get down to, “Okay, I get that I have to sell myself on my website. But I really hate selling myself, and I hate being on camera” enter … Authentic Web.
Yeah. Well enter the idea that we’re not selling ourselves, that you provide enough value through your stories and what you say. How is this part of my story valuable to someone?
Yes. I tell people forget selling and tell stories instead all the time. So that’s really what you’re saying in a way is okay, don’t think we’re gonna put a camera on you and you’re gonna have to go, “Hi, buy from me” like you’re selling a used car. It’s not that at all. It’s like you know what? I found that people I work with have these same kind of problems and I love helping them solve those problems, whether it’s a legal problem or whatever the issue is. And if that’s something that you have, maybe I could help you. That’s a much soft, and maybe even tell a story of somebody you helped, right?
Yeah. That’s the number one thing that people can do is start collecting the stories of the people that they help. And the stories, not testimonials. I always say testimonials stink. It’s not because testimonials are bad, but it’s because of the word testimonial. To most people it means, “John Livesay’s the greatest. He helped us close our biggest round of funding ever.” No, it’s that story of how you helped them, where they were before, where they were and they weren’t able to even articulate their pitch, to how you helped them find it, what their concerns were, what their problems were. And even the problems that they had working with you, because there’s an authenticity to that. It’s not all sunshine and roses. And then the conclusion. It’s that story format that you talk about too.
[Tweet “Stories sell not testimonials”]
If you collect enough of those stories, you could have the worst website in the world, if you have enough of your clients telling those stories, you will win every time.
Yes. I’m seeing some people who are using video testimonials and their mini case studies and the person’s just on camera going, “Here’s where I was, I didn’t want to” … For example, Stephen Woessner has a company called Predictive ROI that produces podcasts for people who don’t want to produce it themselves. They don’t have the time or the interest or whatever their thing is, right? So these people are saying, “I didn’t want to do it but I wanted to have a podcast and now I don’t have to worry about all the production stuff. It’s grown my business.”
Like when people have worked with me sometimes they’ll say, “John really pushed me. I was so frustrated because I thought I had it down and he said it’s still not there yet. And I’m so glad he didn’t let me just get by with just being average. Now I have a great pitch and that makes all the difference.” When someone’s that authentic in their messaging, saying it’s not gonna be all roses and easy peasy, like “I can fix this in two minutes,” but the outcome is worth it. That’s the journey you’re taking them on, right?
It is completely. And you said something really important there about that story of someone saying, “Oh I didn’t know if I was gonna make it through it. Or how I’m gonna do this. And John pushed me through.” Because I tell people when we tell a good story and we want to sell to them, we have to talk about what they want, and then give them what they need. Most experts just go straight to what they need, which no one drowns out, but we have to tell them what they want. What’s that end goal? What they need.
But then we have to overcome their alibis, their excuses. There’s the excuses of working with you, which a lot of people do a good job, but most people don’t overcome the alibis, the internal alibis. Like people believing, “Hey, am I good enough to do this pitch? Is my company good enough to get in front of these VCs?” If you can have a client saying, “You know what? I wasn’t sure about our company, John made me really sure.” You hit that trigger point that now it’s like, “I believe in myself, let’s do this.”
Well I love what you’re saying there because I’m always seeing people are asking, “Okay, I trust you, I like you,” and then the question is when they’re watching a video that you create for their company is, “Will this work for me?” And I have found, and I want your input and maybe a story, on if I can get someone to not just give a case study, which is as boring as somebody’s CV, right? Letting the person watching the video in your case, that you create, put themselves into the story then they can see it happen, if it worked, because sometimes people will say, “Well I’m sure that worked for Joe, but it will never work for me.” But if somehow you tell the story that they can identify with, “Gosh, Joe sounds a lot like me and he had the same challenges and fears and he overcame them.” That to me is the secret sauce, what are your thoughts on that?
Oh, yes. Developing that empathy is absolutely critical. Empathy, when someone can see themselves in the situation, now they’re completely engaged and you can tell them a story and they’re gonna pay attention. So I have lots of stories around that because the people, oh man, we’ve made so many of these case stories. Over the years I’ve interviewed so many of our clients’ clients. We always spent a lot of time making sure that people connect. But I’ve got two scientific examples.
Ooh, I love it. Let’s hear it.
And they both come from actually from other people who have done the research. So the first one was I had one guy doing funnel optimization. For those of you, you know marketing funnels, it’s moving people along either e-mails and market funnel getting from step to step to step. And at one point on the marketing funnel they had, on a landing page, a picture of a man. And then they realize that their target audience was 75% women. They switched that picture and told the story of that person, told the story of one of their clients. Just switching that picture, that connection, increased their conversation rate 150%.
One little tweak, huh?
One little tweak because when we see someone that we believe is like us, that’s why when you look … I’m an infomercial junkie, I have been since I was a kid because I’m like in, I’m dissecting these always, I’ve always loved them.
And all the great infomercials have multiple people in multiple looks on there because they want you to connect to the person.
Right, so if Cindy Crawford’s doing an infomercial for beauty products, she’s gonna have a lot of different women, multiple ages, multiple hair colors all on there. So you’re like, “I don’t know if I identify with Cindy Crawford, she’s too pretty, but I identify with who she’s helping.” Right?
Yep. Exactly, exactly. And the second story’s, actually I just did an interview with this guy Paul Zak, who’s an incredible researcher. His studies just always blow me away ’cause I’m such a marketing nerd. Basically he started out taking blood tests of people as they were going through marketing things. But he did this one test with video, and it showed the story of a son and a dad. And then they added the story into it that the son has cancer and is dying, right? And it was this situation that so many connected with, that it raised their empathy level. So what it did, he found out, is it raised their cortisol level and their oxytocin levels. Which those two combined in the right combination increase empathy and are directly related to empathy.
When someone empathizes not only do they pay attention, they feel a kinship. And we know who in the end we buy from, our friends. And they show the marketing response through the roof. It’s just the more than people can connect with the person telling that story, what’s gonna happen is they like that person, right?
And then a transfer of trust to you.
Well I love this concept because for everybody who may not be aware, cortisol is a stress hormone and oxy is what you feel when you eat chocolate or you’re happy, right?
So it’s this combination of stress and happiness, you think why would that be a good combo? But I’m guessing, and I want, you’re the expert on it, is because the stress part is you’re aware, right? Your fight or flight response is triggered, it gets triggered sometimes when anything’s new, including something new that’s good. Right? “Oh my god, someone’s got cancer. It’s not me but I’m still stressed out watching somebody who has tell the story about have cancer.” Is that what’s going on?
Yes, yes. When we are engaged, you’re exactly right, that fight or flight response is there. We have that oxytocin, that feel good chemical. Really oxytocin is one of the big ones that builds trust. And then there’s that cortisol and they battle, not battle each other but balance each other out so we’re this heightened level of awareness and really that’s what triggers empathy in our brain. It’s that connection because if it’s just all happy, like you know if you’re really comfortable and relaxed and happy-
You’re not gonna take action, right? Yeah.
Yeah. You’re not paying attention. But if you’re completely stressed, you’re also gonna run away.
So it’s that balance. We see it all the time but if you think about all the great stories they start with that little bit of conflict and then you connect with the character. We watch those TV shows where we’re like, “I don’t really get that character so I don’t care.”
Mm-hmm. Well one of the things that really impresses me about what you do at Authentic Web marketing is not only giving the right story at the right time, but I don’t see a lot of other people with this combo expert. You’re like the one stop shop where, if I need a great website design, there’s a lot of people that might do that, but nobody else is combining that with an SEO expert. Because you can have a pretty website and if no one’s going to it it doesn’t matter. And then you take it one step further with, “We’ll create online videos that tell your story, that drives the traffic to the SEO, and the website.”
And it’s just like oh my gosh, you’ve got, in my opinion, the secret recipe that makes everything, as you said just one small tweak, ’cause you’ve got all three of these levers and expertise going. Most people just know SEO or just know website design or maybe they’re lucky enough to find somebody like you who’s an expert on online video storytelling. But what you’ve packaged together I’ve never seen anywhere else.
Oh, thanks. I appreciate it. I wouldn’t say I’m the best at any one of them in the world. Scott Adams talks about it too, he’s like 50% at these three things but when they combine together he has this unique talent. Scott Adams from Dilbert. I’m a heavy reader so I always have these references, sorry.
No, I love it. I’m a heavy reader too. It’s true, but that’s what you want. And I think it’s encouraging for people who think, “Oh, I’ll figure it out myself.” And oh you know what, what does that look like? When people tell me they’re gonna just wing it when they do a pitch I’m like, “Okay, what is that? Let me hear it.” “Um, duh, lalala,” especially with a video, right? And you’ve got the camera on you and if you’re not used to being on camera forget it.
Do you have any secrets that you want to share that most, what’s the biggest mistake you make, I guess that’s a better way to ask the question. The biggest mistake you see people making in SEO, search engine optimization? What is it that people are, when they come to you you’re like, “Oh, there it is again”?
The biggest mistake, and this is, it’s the biggest mistake in marketing. You are not your client. You are not your client. So that means like people say to me, “Well I would search this.” I’m like yeah, but you’re the expert. And you have that curse of the expert because you know so much, you can’t remember being a beginning again. And they’re like, “Well what key words are people searching for?” I’m like, “I don’t know, I can guess.” I’m trying not to guess because I want to find it. I want to have an open mind, a beginner’s mind when I come into this.
So when it comes to SEO thinking that … Well A, that you have to be number one for everything, and B, that you have to get a lot of traffic because of it. But in the end it’s you don’t know the one term that’s gonna make you a million dollars.
I love this. “You have the curse of the expert,” and putting that beginner’s mindset back on it. The more empathy you can show for your customers, the better off you are at solving their problems. But it seems to me like you’re saying it’s not a guessing game, there’s an actual scientific method, proprietary knowledge you have of how to test it, right?
Oh yeah. It is testing, it is testing but in the end, it’s the same thing that you do I’m sure when you’re thinking about a pitch. You’re thinking about who you’re pitching to, what do they want, and as much as you can put yourself in their situation, the better off you’ll do, and answer as many questions as possible in their situation. We buy because of the situation, we don’t buy just because of who we are. And I’m sure there’s perfect times of the day to do a pitch, right? And perfect times-
There’s a perfect timing and there’s a way, there’s probably, one of my favorite things is that David Letterman was always famous for keeping his set cold. He kept it at 50 degrees. What he found was that made his jokes, actually he got the biggest laugh at that temperature. He controlled the situation to that degree. And understanding that situation, the more you can answer like comes back to that value. The more you can think about that person’s situation and how you can you help them. If you can just think about helping that person at that moment as much as possible, and you do it with stories, you can win.
It’s so true. Now you also give keynote talks on storytelling. What are some of the takeaways that you give the audiences when they have you come and speak?
The big ones, I talk about the story process, how to develop a great story. How to develop the About Us page and how to tell your story. Understanding the power of the situation, because we get so taken away from it. And then I really am driving home with people just the power of collecting your company’s stories. The stories of your customers, the stories of the people. Because it’s not just, you have to have an arsenal of stories. You have to because if you, if you’re giving a pitch … And I keep coming back to this because people have asked me about it a lot and I’m like that’s not my thing as much.
[Tweet “Have an arsenal of stories”]
If you’re giving a pitch you’re controlling that situation but if you run into that same guy that you’re trying to pitch to in the elevator, you’re not giving that same pitch. You have to be ready with something else to tell him. And we’re all a collection of stories so I tell people to collect those stories.
Well I know you’re also really into … the mindset of how we think, and the neuroscience and marketing connection, so I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you to talk a little bit about neuroscience and marketing because I’m really big on that too. Whether it’s neurolinguistic programming, advertising is my background, all this subtle messaging, what motivates us, what grabs our attention. What are your thoughts on that, neuroscience and marketing?
I talked a little bit about Paul Zak, he’s a great resource, but we have to remember too that our brains are wired to be caveman brains. And there’s triggers in there — triggers that keep us from doing stuff and triggers that make us do stuff. And to think well I’m a human and not an animal, and I shouldn’t play with those in my marketing, and those tricks don’t work. If you have a service that you want to provide, you have to learn all the tricks of the human brain. And if you’re doing something of value for people, which I hope all your listeners are. I hope when they’re pitching their new software or their big new company that it’s providing value to people. You should be pulling out every trick in the book to provide that value to people.
So you need to learn that. There’s the false attribution error which I was just talking about. We believe that people do things because of who they are, when actually we do things because of the situation. There’s a low correlation that we do things because of who we are. It’s because of what’s going on. And there’s all these studies around it too. The Milgram study is a perfect example of it. The example with the doctors in lab coats making people think that they’re killing the person on the other side by turning up the voltage. It’s a perfect example, people in those situations, it’s because of the controlling the situation so that’s just one of them. The other one, I love all of Cialdini’s stuff.
I’ve interviewed him, he’s amazing about persuasion and presuasion.
Yeah. If you don’t go out and learn those six weapons of persuasion you’re doing yourself a disservice, whether you’re in business or not.
Let’s just, if you don’t mind, I want to explain to the audience ’cause maybe they didn’t grasp all the nuances there. So what you’re saying is the perception is we take action based on who we are and you’re saying that’s not it at all, it’s situation-based, right?
Yup, it is situation-based.
So is there another story or example you could give us. Let’s say I’m pitching to get a company to hire me to be their architecture firm, right?
So when I had Robert on he was saying well you want to really … paint. It’s what you do before you even start talking is important but let’s talk, and obviously the team slide is important whether you’re pitching for money or pitching to get hired. That’s where I think people start to go, “What are you talking about it’s not a who we are?” Can you explain, and when we have a team slide up-
That’s who we are but how does that really … The situation’s more important? You see what I’m saying?
Well no, what I’m saying is not who we are … Who you are when you’re selling your business is very important. What I’m saying is the person you’re pitching to … It’s more about their situation and understanding-
The person you’re talking to, it’s about understanding that moment in time. The simplest example is one I always give to people. I ask them, I go … “There’s a 45 year old woman, she’s a mother of three, she’s a professional and she walks into Starbucks, what does she buy?” And people are like always, almost 90% of the time, I’ll give everyone a second to think about it and say your answer out loud. And it’s usually, most people say a latte. Right?
So then I ask them, “Okay, now it’s five o’clock, she lives in Florida, it’s 95 degrees out and her husband just called and said he’s filing for divorce. What does she buy?” And everyone’s like, “Well she goes straight to the bar.” And I’m like, “Exactly.” We think we’re in control, that she thinks Starbucks is in control of that situation.
That’s such a great example, I’m totally clear now. Yeah, it’s so helpful. So if I’m pitching somebody, it’s not about how great this product is if it doesn’t solve their problem that they have in that exact moment. It’s about whether they … So my example is Airbnb would not have been successful had the economy not been bad in 2008 for people to even consider renting out a room or their home, right?
So there’s an example of if you just asked somebody randomly in 2006, “Hey would you ever consider renting out your home or a room to a stranger?” “No. No, I don’t need the money and I would”, right? But now they’re like, “Oh.” Or before we all had smartphones, can you ever imagine not taking a taxi and just ordering up on your phone? What? No. So they why now is always … So that’s so clear that we respond differently. So you can’t just say, “I’ve got this great thing and it’s good for you 24/7.” No, it’s only good for you if you’re in this particular situation. That’s so helpful.
Now I always have heard, and I want your insight on this, that if I say to people, “Here’s the three mistakes to avoid when you pitch,” or “Here’s three good things to do when you pitch,” that most people, going back to this caveman type of brain, want to avoid making a mistake more than doing the right thing. Thoughts? Thoughts on that?
Yeah, you’re presenting the conflict, right? You’re presenting the conflict and most people do want to avoid the right thing. Because also, in that, you’re presenting the conflict. Now if you had some more specificity and you could take someone, there was a promise like, “Three things to say the perfect pitch in five minutes or less.” Now you have some specificity on that, you might get more attention. But really conflict usually …
That’s why we rubberneck. Everyone hates rubbernecks, right? But we all … No matter how much someone says, “I hate rubbernecking.” There’s not a single person that will not turn and look at that car accident and try and figure out what’s going on. If I walk into a quiet room and clap my hands really loud, everyone’s turning around.
So that conflict, yes, 100% can control the situation. And to that point, you can prime the situation. Like you could walk into a pitch possibly and put some sort of conflict in so you now put them in, frame that situation, and now you know what mood they’re in.
Yeah. It was so funny I was just talking to a start-up that has an app that can put you in touch with an attorney right away if you’ve been pulled over by the police. And I said, “Oh.” He starts talking about it’s on Android and iOS and it’s a mobile platform and it’s patented. I said, “No, no, no, you’re wasting it.” “Have you ever had the feeling when the lights of a cop car go on and your heart starts pounding fast and you’re pulled over, and you don’t know if you were speeding, had a broken tail light, and God, where the heck is my registration? I hope it’s up to date and hasn’t expired. All those feelings and thoughts are going through your head? Well we have a solution to that.” That’s so much more compelling, right? ‘Cause that’s the conflict and then people can put themselves in that, it’s happened to almost everybody.
Yeah if you want to do it one better, and this might be a little tricky, you figure some way to put that siren and those lights behind that person within an hour before they walk in that room-
They’re gonna remember that.
You know that feeling that you just had? Imagine now you always had that solution. And now you’ve put me back to it, right? My three year old has this cop car that we finally got out of his hands. Every time he’d turn it on in the back seat I’m like, “Oh!”
Right. “Oh, it’s just you. Okay, you can’t play with that in the car anymore, it’s too realistic, sorry.” That’s so funny, so funny. Well Authentic … is just an incredible, AuthenticWeb.marketing, we’re gonna put that in the show notes. Your podcast is called The Garlic Marketing Show. And you are the person to get when somebody wants to know about video digital storytelling and what to have on their website about the about page since it’s the second most clicked thing in the world.
So if you want to have all of that combined, great website design, great SEO, and more importantly, in my opinion, the secret sauce of the video digital storytelling that makes it all come to life, what are you waiting for everybody? Get Ian on your team.
And so how can we follow you? What’s all your Twitter handle and all that good stuff?
So it’s pretty much everything is Ian Garlic. I had a battle against cooking blogs for a long time, but now you can find me. My Facebook page, if you just go to garlicface.com that redirects you to my Facebook page. The big thing is I want everyone to start making great case study videos. You can do it with your iPhone if you know how to create them. So what I did is made something for your listeners. It’s a checklist to creating the perfect video case study. And it’s 15 steps. You just go to iangarlic.com/livesay and you’ll be there, you can download it, boom, use it. If you have any questions hop on my Facebook page, I love to help people out with this. I tell you the world would be such a better place if we just all collect as many of those stories of helping people. ‘Cause those stories of us helping people helps someone else too.
Nice. Well you’ve just been an amazing guest, giving us so much valuable content on storytelling, on SEO, and mistakes to avoid when we do SEO. I can’t thank you enough for sharing your wisdom.
Oh John, it’s been my pleasure. I love talking to you, it’s been awesome. And anytime you want me back I will be more than happy.
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