Mental Fitness With Rob Roell

Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments

20.10.21

Who says fitness is all about the physical? Rob Roell, Executive Coach at Equilibrium Coaching, believes we also need the mental stamina to unlock our true potential for professional success. In this episode, he joins John Livesay to talk about mental fitness, what it is, and why we need it. He dives deep into the imposter syndrome, the ways social media amplifies it, and how we can overcome that through mental fitness. Offering some great tools, Rob discusses the book Positive Intelligence, where he highlights how we can be more productive and fight off what is called mental saboteurs. Achieving success is not just about having the physical capacity to work towards our goals. It is also about having the mental part taken care of that helps us see through the challenges along the way, especially in this modern world. Join Rob in this conversation as he helps us become mentally fit.

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Listen to the podcast here

Mental Fitness With Rob Roell

Our guest is Rob Roell, who is an Executive Coach that helps clients unlock their true potential for professional success so they can increase their performance without all the anxiety and stress. He has created a wonderful book called Positive Intelligence, PQ if you will. It’s a simple yet powerful operating system that allows you to become mentally fit like with physical fitness require some practice. This Positive Intelligence is developed with coaching in mind. He has been able to improve clients’ progress with their goals.

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Rob, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much. I need to correct you. The book is not my book. The book was written by Shirzad Chamine, which is a great opportunity to give him credit for the foundation that I work from.

I have had some people do that with other people’s work. They give credit, whether it’s Simon Sinek’s Start With Why. It’s so wonderful when someone creates something so valuable that other people can be credited and make it a basis for a foundation and get the training directly from that.

This stuff is incredible work. It’s foundational for me. I use it as a foundation for all of my clients.

Tell us a little about your own story of origin. You can go back to childhood or school. How did you get involved or interested in coaching and helping people?

Years ago, I was at a Tony Robbins program. One of the trainers that I was working with saw something in me that can happen like a bubble went off in my head. This was something that I wanted to do. When it came together like one of those meant to be moments, I was talking to a friend of mine after the program. He’s like, “Rob, have you ever done this before?” Without even blinking or missing a note, I said off the top of my head, “It’s funny. I have been doing this all my life. I’ve never got paid for it.” It’s true. I have always been that person in every group of friends that people come, seek out advice, knowledge from and the shoulder to cry on like, “Rob, can you come over here? I need to talk to you about something.”

It fascinates me because of your background. You have a Master’s in Electrical Engineering. Nothing against engineers but as a species, you guys are exactly known for being right brain, warm and fuzzy. You toggle back and forth.

There is a reason that we use that term binary. Engineers tend to be left-brain cerebral thinkers. History-wise, my last run in the corporate world was what would be called a sales or a systems engineer, which is the person on the sales team that helps the customer to understand technology. That’s something you wouldn’t traditionally think of as an engineering role. It’s one of those places that I have always been in that unusual space between what traditionally I was trained for and what comes naturally to me.

[bctt tweet=”Celebrate your wins.” username=”John_Livesay”]

In a way, you are a translator of tech to something understandable. The same thing seems to be happening to me with this Equilibrium Coaching because a lot of people say, “I’m great at decision making. People like and respect me and yet in my personal life, I feel like I don’t have the same skills.” You can help them translate that.

I’m a little bit of that. What we tend to focus on are those things that aren’t working optimally in the business realm. The beauty is, call it stealth coaching, call it whatever you want, all of those things that they learn to use in the business world to make themselves feel more productive, happier, less stressed, translate over into the personal life, whether it’s a relationship with a partner, with kids or fitness. Whatever it is, it all translates.

Many people, no matter how successful they are, even celebrities, suffer from impostor syndrome. Let’s define what that is and what that looks like. I know I have certainly struggled with it when I was speaking at a Coca-Cola summit. I looked at all the other speakers who had MBAs from Harvard and New York Times bestsellers, I’m like, “That’s going to trigger any insecurities that would do it.” I’m a big proponent of not comparing myself to other people. I find we still all tend to do that sometimes, don’t we?

A lot of it is cultural. Nowadays, we like to bang on social media. Social media is the source of many issues. I’m a fan of the fact that social media is the accelerator. All of that stuff was there. Social media made it easier to put it all out into the public. Impostor syndrome, at the end of the day, it’s a part of what goes on with people. It’s that part of you that doubts, that judges yourself about, “Am I good enough? Have I done enough about this?” It’s that thing that keeps us up at night thinking, “Did I do everything? Did I check all the boxes to move me on powerfully?” Unfortunately, we are in a society that reinforces this idea, “You’ve got to get it done. You’ve got to get through. It’s going to be tough. It has to be tough to be worthwhile.” In some ways, that may be true. It doesn’t have to be tough on you emotionally, physically and mentally. It doesn’t have to be Pollyanna but you can do everything that you do from a positive perspective, rather than trying to attack it from the negative perspective. It’s going to get you there. It’s going to get you some success. Are you going to be happy? Are you going to be fulfilled? Likely, not.

I will never forget. I was friends with an actress when I was living in LA that had the Malibu summer house on the beach with all the other celebrities and was on a sitcom. She was miserable. She said, “No one wants to hear it,” because she’s living the dream of an actor. Getting on a show and having that lifestyle, then you are still miserable. She didn’t like the show, not well written and was embarrassed to do it. The stress of it is going to be canceled or not. Nobody wants to hear that. They want to hear you on Malibu and show. You must be happy. If you are not happy, don’t talk about it.

We could go down a deep rabbit hole about all of our societal issues with mental health. People don’t want to hear when their version of you, what they see of you is everything they think that they want.

You are busting the illusion. As soon as I had this concept, if I had that, I would be happy. I understand why I’m not happy. If you tell me that if I get that, I’m still not going to be happy, you are going to blow my circuits.

A Buddhist saying or wherever it comes from, you think about what comes first is, is success generates happiness or is it happiness that generates success?

Mental Fitness: People don’t want to hear when their version of you and what they see of you is everything they think they want.

We see all these famous people like Kate Spade or that amazing chef who committed suicide, Anthony Bourdain. I ask myself, “There it is again.” If you are not happy, all the money, fame and whatever in the world that you could want, what you are doing is crucially important. If we do this as soon as I get this, I will be a happy game. It’s a zero-some game. We have to be happy where we are, is what I’m hearing you say. Many of us are going to need some coaching to get there.

Honestly, I love it. There was some point in reading your book. There was this one saying that we are kindred spirits here. You talk about this internal voice that tries to protect us. I have the quote here, “The internal voice that tries to protect us by diminishing us and critiquing our performance.” The world I work from the positive intelligence mental fitness, we call those the saboteurs.

It’s valuable to label it. You are like, “Who’s speaking?” If I’m the thinker thinking these thoughts, “Who’s in my head telling me all these horrible mean things?” What I’m fascinated by with positive intelligence is that it’s so measurable. We know if we have worked out, we can measure our waist or our biceps. We go, “I’m getting results.” There are actual ways not to try to boost your mental fitness but measure it. Can you explain how that works?

The way that you can measure your mental fitness, Positive Intelligence gives us some great tools. If you already go to their website, they have several assessments. One is you can measure your PQ score like you can do an IQ test. Nowadays, emotional intelligence and EQ is a big thing, especially in the executive business world. You can also measure your PQ. It’s a ratio of how often you use positive reinforcement and positive perspectives to rule your life versus how much you use the negative. Where it becomes important is you get a score of 0 to 100. The target is you want to be above 75%. If you want, I can go into the science that goes behind it.

Let’s hear a little bit about Science. Here’s what a friend of mine who writes for Inc Magazine told me, anything that they write with a headline or an article about how our brain works get more clicks than anything else. Good to know. I get a chance to interview someone as knowledgeable as you that understands and can give us some valuable information on how our brain works or why something works for our brain. It seems to me that the data is there that people are interested in this. Let’s hear the highlights of it.

Look at that ratio. 75% to 25%, that’s a 3:1 ratio. The idea is that the saboteurs I mentioned live predominantly in that primitive part of your brain. The part that wants to see the leaves rustling out in the jungle just in case there’s a tiger there to come after you. It’s served a purpose at some point in our human development. Not so much now. Aside from Houston, there are not many suburban areas you are going to find a tiger rustling the tree. What that does is your brain is tuned on this 3:1 ratio to look more for something that’s going to go wrong than for something that’s going to go right. You want to be above a 3:1 ratio to be able to have an opportunity to override that tendency of your primitive brain.

It’s a survival mechanism. I heard something similar when I interviewed Steve Rohr, who wrote Scared Speechless talking about you and I are both speakers. Our brain is wired to never be separate from the tribe. When you are standing in front of people, your fight or flight response is kicked in and says, “What are you doing? The tribe is out there. You are all alone. You are going to get picked off.” I think there are some interesting things there. This concept that we are always looking for what’s wrong or could go wrong is part of the pre-wiring. He talks about when you are standing on stage in front of people, your brain is wired to say, “The tribe is out there. You are up here by yourself. You are in danger. You could get picked off by a predator.” We have to override that. That’s why people get so scared to speak. The same thing is true in our everyday life about what is going on that feels like we are not enough. We think hard to try to do this.

Going back to social media as an amplifier, you almost get this badge for being in that negative space. You post something negative on social media and everybody goes, “That’s so cool.” There are a lot of positive voices. It would be interesting to see. Is there a 3:1 ratio in that sense on social media?

[bctt tweet=”Treat mental fitness like it was physical fitness.” username=”John_Livesay”]

In journalism, if it bleeds, it leads. All of that click-through. I wrote something about this whole process of moving. I have done this a few times. Every time, I’m like, “By the time I move in, all the joy has been sucked out.” With the endless requests for the loan, problems with this, delays and you have your house inspected. Your whole focus is on everything that needs to be fixed.

It starts with that 3-inch stack of paperwork you have to sign to finalize the house.

You are thinking, “I am determined.” Ten things need to be fixed in the house, even a new house. That’s part of the process. We always have a choice toggling back and forth of, “Am I going to complain or am I going to be grateful? I have a roof over my head.” It is challenging when you keep getting knocked down or it’s one thing after another. The movers break something. There’s a leak in your roof. The laundry list is huge of what you can focus on to be upset about or you take a breath and go, “You broke something. Take a picture. I will claim, next.”

In the positive intelligence contacts, what you are talking about there is switching. We mentioned these saboteurs. Saboteurs are all within us. Let’s start there. To counter that is another part of us that’s also within us is the sage. It’s that part of us that wants to operate from the good. The sage starts with a sage perspective that everything in life that every challenge brings with it a gift and an opportunity. That resonates where you are now.

I always think this is going to make a great story, even it’s horrible. I can turn this into a story. I have heard people who write for movies go, “They are always looking for all. This is going to make a great script.” With that sage advice for me, I would love your opinion on this about zooming out. I do the 555 thing I made up, which is will this matter in 5 minutes, 5 days, 5 weeks, keep going. You realize, “Five days, zoom out. I’m so upset because this happened.” You are like, “This ability to have a sage perspective.” Ideally, the longer we live, the more of a sage we become. I have lived through this. That’s some good times and bump times. I have seen them all. I’m still here. That philosophy is sometimes difficult if you are younger. I see people get so obsessed with, “I thought I would be more successful by the time I hit this age. I probably making the 30 under 30 Forbes lists,” whatever their mindset is. How do you help people who, even if they are not “older,” are still so unhappy with where they are? You think, “As soon as I’ve got this, I would be happy.” You get that and you are not happy.

When we get there, we tend to focus on the thing we miss. In reality, we haven’t taken account of all the things that we gained along the way. There’s a famous speaker and one of his quotes is, “Shoot for the moon and the worst thing that happens is you land amongst the stars.”

That’s from an old Bette Davis movie.

Realistically, that’s true, especially when you talk about high-achiever mentality people. We look at the goal. If we don’t reach the goal, it’s a total failure. We don’t celebrate our wins along the way. Quite often, we don’t even define clearly what that goal is.

Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours

It’s always elusive. I remember when I was ten years old, I thought my dentist was so great. I thought maybe I will be a dentist. I was talking to him about it. He goes, “I settled on dentistry. I wanted to be a plastic surgeon.” I was like, “What? You settled on being a dentist.” Everyone has got this, “I’m still not happy. It’s not my dream.” From the outside looking in, you think it is. As you said, we have similar philosophies. This concept of perfectionism is a curse. I would say we need to reinvent and come up with a new word progressionist. You and I are progressionist to help other people to celebrate their progress.

The human brain and existence are geared around progress like a core coaching tenant are helping clients create progress. We also know it was one of the big personal development quotes. It’s like progress over perfection. You will hear me quote Tony a lot, I volunteer in his environment. I hear his stuff continually in my head. Tony says, “Perfection is the worst goal of attainment because it’s unattainable.”

It creates a barrier. If you come across perfect, no one can relate to you. There’s no connection. I know you pride yourself as a speaker on having this bond with the audience. Talk a little bit about how you do that.

I know you are a fan of the story. For me, my story was speaking. I was speaking in the corporate world. I was very powerful as a systems engineer or sales engineer however, I never felt like I was connected to my audience. I could spew the data, tell good stories and do well in that sales environment. When I first hired my speaking coach, that was the one thing I wanted to tackle more than anything. He’s like, “Rob, it’s very simple.” Throw away all that BS garbage that speaking coaches tell you about looking over everybody’s head. He’s like, “Find one person in the room and have a conversation with them and then find another person and have a conversation with them.” I know you have spoken from stage. Anybody that’s ever spoken from stage, you get the fact that when you speak to that one person, you get that radius effect. 10 to 20 feet out, everybody thinks you are speaking to them and then you feel connected. They feel that. It builds on itself.

Even if you go to a concert where you listen, sometimes the singer will say, “I want to tell you.” You feel like they are talking to you. There are thousands of people that are in the dark. That is fascinating, whether it’s 300 people in a ballroom or how many people Staples Center holds. That successful banter in between the songs creates that emotional connection. The other thing that I’m fascinated to ask you about. I have noticed that people who stay curious are the ones that seem to live long, healthy lives. People who are bored easily seem to be miserable all the time and tend to have unhealthy lives and not live so long. It’s the people who are like, “I decided I learned another language.” You are 80 years old. They are like, “I want to learn something new.” You are constantly up-to-date on what’s going on in the world and staying curious. What are your thoughts on being curious? I know it’s a big outcome of what mental fitness looks like. Are there things that people can do to increase their curiosity if they are not naturally curious?

One is bringing attention to it. Creating intent, when you create intent around wanting to be curious, part of it is like anything else. Creating that mental muscle to be curious takes practice. You have to remind yourself consciously from time to time, it’s being intentional about being curious. I mentioned the sage earlier. The sage has five powers. One of those sage powers is explored. The power game we play around sage explore is the fascinated explorer. Think of yourself as Indiana Jones. You notice how I’m leaning in. It’s having that posture of leaning in, listening closely and intently. Being curious has all of that around it. I get goosebumps talking about that.

The outcome besides being happier is this increase in productivity. Can you speak to how mental fitness helps us be more productive?

We were talking about these negative voices that go on inside of our heads. If you were to sit down and journal about how much of your time you are spending combating that. If you were to minimize those voices in your head, how much more productive would you be? At the end of the day, the studies show us that average people are over 30% more productive when they are coming from a positive mindset rather than a negative mindset in everything they do.

[bctt tweet=”Social media is the source of so many issues.” username=”John_Livesay”]

That’s huge. I didn’t know it would be that high. That’s a very surprising statistic. I would think maybe 10%, but 30%. Imagine, if you decided, “I can start work 30%.” I don’t have to work five days a week if I’m hitting my goals if I’m thinking more positively.

The high achievers out there going, “I still work five more days.”

I would keep Elon Musk. I would go to the moon. I would take us here.

The thing that’s nice about that extra productivity, you are not only more productive, but you are also happier while you are doing it. One of the metaphors that I love that Shirzad loves to talk about. He used to be an instructor at Stanford. He would talk about these concepts at Stanford. His students nicknamed this Jedi Mind training. I remember when I watch Return of the Jedi, Luke training with Yoda out on that planet Dagobah. It’s like, “I want to train with Yoda.” That’s what it was all about. How could Luke be calm, clear and focused in the middle of all the chaos of battle and everyday life?

That reminds me of what I watched in the documentary about Tiger Woods and how his father would constantly distract him while he’s practicing so that he had to get into the zone. When all the pressure was on, he could tune it all out. If athletes have to do that, when we are called on to perform as a speaker, in a business situation, you are pitching to win new business or whatever it is, if you are distracted by the hum or a look someone gave you, 101 things can distract us. Your phone going off and all that. Maybe you turn the distractions off that way. As you talk about laser focus, your ability is so important to mental fitness. That requires some work, doesn’t it? It’s got to get cleaning away some stuff.

Let’s put some foundation around this idea of mental fitness. To state the obvious, it’s based on the idea of physical fitness. When you are physically fit, you can climb a steep hill. You can jog down the street without losing your breath and without having physical stress. The same thing with mental fitness. When you are mentally fit, you can deal with life’s challenges without all the stress, anxiety, doubt and frustration that can come up all of the negative emotions from being in life. To be mentally fit, it’s not something that you can turn on just like that for the average person. To be physically fit, you have to train regularly to be there. Michael Phelps didn’t become a world-class swimmer by going to the pool once a week.

I have a story. When he was young, his coach said to him, “Michael, are you willing to work out on Sundays?” He said, “Yes.” He goes, “We’ve got 52 more workouts from the competition.” People go, “It’s not his physique. It’s not he got lucky genetically. In the end, he put in that extra work.” That’s important for people to realize you don’t suddenly get into shape overnight physically. Why would you think you could mentally with a few affirmations?

At the end of the day, mental fitness is a concept of being more positive than negative. It’s creating a practice around that. It’s something you do regularly. For me, knowing that I was nervous coming in here, I did somewhat we call them PQ reps, positive intelligence reps. There are about ten seconds a piece that help you to become more body-centric and centered. To put it, it helps the part that minimizes those saboteur voices in your head nice. When you are there, that gives you that opportunity to choose to take on the sage perspective.

Mental Fitness: When you are mentally fit, you can deal with life’s challenges without all the stress, anxiety, doubt, and frustration that can come up from all of the negative emotions in life.

I call it stacking your moments of certainty. 2 or 3 times, when you knew you had a good interview, you are like, “I know John likes me. He’s going to make me look good. Whatever saboteur voices I have in my head, this is not one of those gotcha interviews. This is going to be fun. I’m going to be of service. People are going to love what I say. There’s a technical glitch here and there. Who cares? We will figure it out. It’s not the end of the world.” We have the perspective so we can zoom out.

One of the other things I love about your work and what you do is, as you mentioned at the beginning, go from, “I’ve got to get this out and white knuckle it almost,” to the concept of, “I can take action. I move through life with grace and ease. Things always work out for me.” Many people are presenting the concept. I have watched people have visceral, angry reactions. “That’s not true. It’s not about working smarter. You’ve got to work hard. Everything has to be hard.” There’s no such thing about being in the flow. That’s why I love teaching people how to become storytellers. When you tell a story, you are in the flow. You are pulling people in. The action they want to take is like landing a plane. It’s not this surprise push at the end. Speak to how you help people get in the flow.

Let me back up again, add a little bit of science to this. Realistic as to where Shirzad came up with all of this in his studies, he’s worked with hundreds of CEOs around the world. We talked about the Stanford students that he’s worked with. He’s worked with world-class athletes. At this point, hundreds of thousands of people that are participated in his Positive Intelligence program. In working with them, what they did is they work from this idea of what’s called factor analysis, specifically root factor analysis where you are trying to find the root of why things are. What root factor analysis gives us is a radical simplification of why things are and why. That’s what resulted in the nine saboteurs. There are ten. There’s the judge saboteurs, the principal, and nine accomplices and the sage with the five sage powers.

To give you an idea of what root factor analysis is, we all know that of all of the thousands of colors that exist in our beautiful world, three colors exist at the root of all of that, red, green and blue. That’s when you look at a monitor. Those of us that are old enough to remember used to refer to monitors as RGB monitors. It’s a similar thing here with mental fitness. The root factor analysis with all of these people resulted in these ten saboteurs. Be very clear about the 1 sage and 5 sage powers. Also, what we learned from the root factor analysis, three main muscles create mental fitness. The saboteur interceptor muscle. It’s the idea of understanding when a saboteur is in your presence and acting on your mentality. To put it very simply, the saboteur interceptor muscle is a negative emotion. When you recognize your negative emotion, you equate that with the existence of a saboteur.

Labeling that helps take some of the chaos in our head and rip above it, doesn’t it?

It does. Having that interceptor muscle be strong, whether it’s personal development or coaching. The difference between having that a-ha moment and acting on that a-ha moment is like, “What are those things? What are the saboteurs that are keeping me acting powerfully on this?” That comes from, “I’m scared of this or I’m getting stressed. I’m getting anxious about it.” Noticing that you have the opportunity to do something about it. That brings up the second muscle. It’s the sage muscle. Knowing that the sage operates from everything as a gift and an opportunity, you have these five powers of the sage with the power games that go along with them. You can leverage those to help you make that shift as well.

The third muscle is where these PQ reps come from. The idea of the PQ reps is to exercise that third muscle so that you recognize you are in saboteur mode. You can do PQ reps to bring that voice down in your head. Now, you can powerfully bring the sage up. All of these things are all ready, just like your physical muscles are part of you. All of these three mental fitness muscles are already a part of you. You have to exercise them. You have to create a practice around it to strengthen them so that when the saboteurs come up, you can go, “That’s a saboteur.” If you want to identify this saboteur, “That’s the controller or stickler. The stickler wants to get everything right.” You could identify it to that level. The idea of knowing that saboteur is powerful in and of itself, and choosing the sage perspective and making the shift.

If someone wants to get ahold of you, what’s the best way to do that?

[bctt tweet=”Creating that mental muscle to be curious takes practice. You have to remind yourself consciously from time to time.” username=”John_Livesay”]

The best way to get ahold of me is very simply my name [email protected].

Rob, any last thought or quote you want to leave us with?

I would love to offer to anybody that’s reading, if they want to have a conversation with me, schedule 30 minutes with me. You can go to my website, EquilibriumCoach.us/contact. If you go there, it will give you a website/contact/connect. You get access to my calendar. You can schedule a 30-minute. We can sit down and talk about how mental fitness might work for you.

Thank you. It has been fun hearing about how we can all get a little more mentally fit from you, Rob. Thanks again.

Thank you, John. I appreciate you.

Important Links

• Equilibrium Coaching
• Positive Intelligence
• Start With Why
• Steve Rohr – Past Episode
• Scared Speechless
• [email protected]
• EquilibriumCoach.us/contact
• Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course

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