Speakers Loft: Elevating Your Value As A Speaker With Kristian Ravn
Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments
Breaking into an industry and carving your name on its walls is all about mindset. In another inspiring episode, John Livesay chats with Kristian Ravn, a former journalist, philosopher, and the Founder of SpeakersLoft, a tech solution to help prevent loneliness for speakers on the road. Kristian talks about his background in philosophy, journalism, and technology and how it all come together on SpeakersLoft. He shares his idea of trust before everything else and how to negotiate around fees for speaking gigs, and discusses the phases in engaging with people including mirroring.
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Listen to the podcast here
Speakers Loft: Elevating Your Value As A Speaker With Kristian Ravn
My guest is Kristian Ravn out of Denmark. He’s created something called SpeakersLoft, which is a tech solution to help prevent loneliness for speakers on the road. What a fascinating concept. He talks about his background in philosophy, journalism, technology and how it’s all come together on SpeakersLoft. One of the favorite quotes from the episode that he creates content around is, “If they don’t give you a seat at the table, bring a folding chair.” No matter what industry you’re in and you’re trying to break through or grow your business, that’s the mindset you have to have.
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My guest is Kristian Ravn. What he does is he has created something called SpeakersLoft. He helps create more business for public speakers who travel for speaking. He is based in Copenhagen, but he is certainly a citizen of the world. Kristian, welcome to the show.
Thank you very much for having me.
I always like to ask my guests to tell their own stories of origin. You can go back as far as you want, in your childhood or your college, university days. I know you didn’t wake up as a young lad and say, “I’m going to launch SpeakersLoft because I see a problem in the speaking industry I can fix.” You’ve had some other training as a journalist and philosophy. Give us a sense of your background and how you got to be a grouper.
Possibly looking back as a young man, I grew up on a farm, the dangerous side of Denmark, Germany border. Everything was going the traditional way until I stumbled upon the philosophy thing, which was mesmerizing to a young mind. I figured we have all these smart Germans and a lot of smart English philosophers. The self-off certainty you have when you’re twenty, I jumped on that and I went to the university. I was like, “I’m going to solve the problem of identity. I’m going to solve the problem of ethics. I don’t see why this is so hard.” I went through some humbling years because those problems are fantastic. I consider it a privilege to have spent time on them, but I also at some point decided that enough was enough and I’m not going to be the one to solve any of that.
I started studying journalism, which I’d say the hardest thing I’ve ever done was going from something so abstract as to try and conceive the boundaries of what can be thought to telling a story, which I know also you’ve dealt with a lot. Storytelling is a fantastic tool, but nobody cares if it doesn’t have structure. It isn’t concrete and it doesn’t have images. There’s no flow. I’m trying to tell people how the world as they perceive it may not be as it is horrible in the storytelling. That was very hard. After that, I worked in publishing for a few years and I felt myself becoming more and more interested in the tech side of things. Working with data sets, finding out what is it that makes a speaker or offer going successful. If you break down all the data, you can find about it and what makes a difference when you go into the marketing side.
I did that for a couple of years. I met the friend of a friend, who runs the speaker bureaus. He said, “The work I do is I have these thousands of speakers across Europe and in North America. They have a very lonesome job because they go out in their own states. They are the center of attention for 45 minutes. They get on the flight back and they prepare and research and try to find the next job. We have to cater to the client, not the speaker because they’re the ones paying.” It always feels like we could possibly create something more, something that creates a sense of meaning in being a speaker. He said, “Do you think you can do that?” We had a beer. I said, “I’m pretty sure I can do that.” Now we’re doing the SpeakersLoft.
I find it fascinating because hearing the backstory of philosophy, which you said one of the topics was identity. Who are we, what’s our purpose, what makes us different than everyone else, yet how do we fit in as a tribe? All of those are issues that people face from time to time depending on where you are in your little journey. Journalism hones in on the who, what, where, when aspect of it. Those journalistic skills are important for crafting a talk and certainly a story. You take it one step further with technology where you have created a tech solution to loneliness. That’s how I define SpeakersLoft.
You’re doing me a great honor by describing it that way. If it becomes that, I will be so insanely proud.
I’m the Pitch Whisperer. I love to come up with a soundbite for people so that they can get people’s attention. They are intrigued to want to know more. If you say that to people, you might get the ideal answer where people say, “What do you do?” It’s like, “I’ve created a tech solution that helps loneliness for speakers on the world traveling.” People might be intrigued enough to want to know more, which is the answer that everybody hopes for when they’re giving their little elevator pitch.
Speakers Loft: The whole business of speaking is about trust.
I’ll be sure to try it out.
Let me know how it goes. Those little nuggets all come from the story of origin, which is why I always tell our audience, it’s so important to have your story of origin ready in a clear, concise way so that people get a sense of who you are. It’s important, Kristian, that people trust and like you before they’re willing to get to know you. What are your thoughts on that?
Trust is everything. We even found hints of trust in the data of speakers. The whole business of speaking is about trust. One thing phenomenally interesting is if you look at the actress in the field around speaking where the bureaus are very central. You could make a strong argument that they are a nonsensical entity in the ecosystem because they are a middleman that takes money from two sides that get along together. I’ve had that set by speakers and it’s going to, “Why should I give my bureau commission? I don’t like to work with bureaus. I don’t see the point.”
If you, as a speaker don’t see the point, then you need to step into the shoes of the client. If the client books through a bureau, they know that their reputation inside the company they’re from is on the line when they hire a speaker. It’s not that they’re hiring the speaker, they are placing that trust and money in a brand who will also fail if they fail. It’s a sharing of the burden. If you have that level of trust and the need for trust as part of your analysis, it makes perfect sense.
You’ve touched on a couple of things that are key here. First of all, the model of a speaking bureau, a lot of us as speakers think. “I can sell myself. I don’t need somebody.” I have come to learn those successful people who have created a brand of being perceived as a thought leader and an expert where people are willing to pay you to come to speak, have a team of people that represent them because you’re too busy doing what you do. Steve Wozniak, for example, does not pitch himself. The same thing is true when I launched my book. I hired a publicist. What the publicist and speaking bureaus offer from my perspective is helping clients de-risk their choice of who they’re going to hire.
[bctt tweet=”Trust and integrity are the keys to success.” username=”John_Livesay”]
If a publicist has a relationship with a journalist at a Fortune or Inc. or what have you, they pitch a story, an idea covering how do you get out of the friend zone at work? Here’s John’s book on how to do that. The journalist respects the publicist enough to know, “That’s an interesting hook. If you think this is good and you think the author would be a good interview, I’ll do it if it helps.” The same thing is true when a client is involved with the speaking bureau. They want to know if this person has integrity, which is one of the things you talked about with ethics. Are they going to do what they say they’re going to do?
The practical issue is, is this speaker going to show up? If you’re a client and you want to hire a speaker, it’s a one-off from the speaker. If they do poorly, it’s probably not going to pursue them that much. If they get all of that gigs through the bureau and the bureau pitch them to the client and they let down both the client and the bureau, they’re not going to get any more from the bureau. All of this is a risk and trust balancing game.
You’ve created SpeakersLoft that is a place that allows speakers from all over the world who are traveling to connect with other speakers while they happen to be in that city or town.
That’s phase one. We can trust anyone we don’t know or we can, but it’d be weird and doesn’t lead anywhere. The idea is when I go to Rome, Berlin or Washington and so can any member of the network, the fashion emails, everyone is saying, “I’m going to be in town. Do any of you have time for a cup of coffee? I’m interested in how the business is going here.” This magical thing happens. This is what happens when people meet. Some people you click with and you’re like, “I like this guy. This woman is inspiring,” or “The conversation we just had over a cup of coffee blew my mind.” These people are going to be people we feel comfortable helping out in the future.
A lot of clients will say to me sometimes, “You did a great job. Thanks a lot. We never bring the same speaker back. Who else do you know that we might consider next?” If you’ve got a relationship of speakers that you’ve connected with through SpeakersLoft or other ways, that’s a fantastic referral source and it works in two ways. You’ve been kind enough because you have this unique perspective of seeing all the different specificities, the expertise that different people speak on that you’re like, “This person might want to know this person.” Some of the introductions you’ve made to me because all these people are on your platform have been life-changing literally.
Speakers Loft: Mirroring is repeating back the last three words somebody says to you but in a downward inflection.
One gentleman, in particular, is our mutual friend, Sameer Somal. He helps people with their digital reputation and specifically in the law industry. He and I were brainstorming and I said, “You’re helping law firms at the beginning of their process of getting a new client.” People are going to search for law firms to see if they even want to interview them. Once they see that they have good results and there are no negative things, they might call them in to interview them. That’s where I step in with my talks and training to help them be better storytellers to win against two other competitors. It was like, “I’ve spoken to this law firm and let me make an intro for you.”
That collaboration is valuable. You introduced me to another gentleman, Fireman Rob. He has this amazing story of he’s a superhero, saving people, fires and 9/11, but he needs some introductions and some help along the way. Some of us are able to mentor other people and make introductions on, “You’re thinking of writing a book or you’re thinking of launching a podcast. Let me give you the people that I’ve already vetted.” That whole energy of creating a place of trust and support. This other factor, unless you’ve experienced it and you did a great job painting the picture of it, people who have to travel for work have an understanding of what it’s like.
Typically, you’re on the road and you don’t know anybody. Sometimes if you’re in sales and traveling or you’re going to a convention, you know other people. When you don’t know anyone, especially if you’re in a foreign country or city. You go from that high of attention and hopefully great feedback and feeling like you made a difference to, “I’m back in my hotel room alone. I’m having dinner alone or the night before,” and all that stuff. How differently that creates the experience for someone if they could tap into SpeakersLoft and say, “I’m going to be here, I’m going to be there,” and start to meet other people who would understand their industry and understand the challenges of being on the road. In fact, one of the jokes I heard from someone was, “We speak for free. They pay us to travel.” Tell us a little bit about the platform and the technology behind it.
Phase one is building this global city guide and it grows whenever we get new members, we have new cities in. The last ones are Heidelberg, Germany, Glasgow and a place in Virginia. We were mostly in North America, but I’m glad to see Europe is picking up and a few places down in Australia as well. That’s one thing. You go into the system. You got a profile. You can send out an email to everyone saying, “I’m going to be in town.” You can talk to them on the Facebook group. Phase two is a structured way to share everywhere we’ve been. What’s strange or fantastic about speaking is that the relationship with the client is typically not going to be for years.
If you’re an ad agency, you’re going to work with a client for years because that makes a lot of sense. As a speaker, you do it once. What we want to create is when you and I, for instance, connect on that. I speak at Carlsberg here in Copenhagen. After that job is done because we’re connected, you’d get a hint saying, “There are these people in Copenhagen. Kristian just spoke there. You’ve spoken on the same topic. Maybe they’d be interesting. Maybe he can introduce you.” You get an automatic warm lead feeling from your connections, which will then make it easier to focus on what to pursue next. The job is probably not going to be next door, but I don’t think I’ve met a lot of speakers who don’t want to travel.
[bctt tweet=”What’s strange or fantastic about speaking is that the relationship with the client is typically not going to be for years.” username=”John_Livesay”]
We are willing to go where they need us.
That’s fantastic because you can get all these leads saying, “There’s this one job in Germany. There’s this one in Tokyo. There is this one down in Ben-Hur in Namibia.” You’re going to pursue him like you would other jobs. Apart from that being a place where you already have a foot in the door, this is all about trust. If you can go somewhere and you can talk to a specific person and say, “I know John and he spoke here. He talked highly of your organization. I was curious to see if you’ve got other things coming up.” That’s a foot in the door. That can take the lead toned down from maybe 1.5, 2 years to maybe half a year or a year. That’s worthwhile there, but it also focuses on the job you have in front of you as a speaker. It can feel like you’re climbing a mountain every day. You’ve got to keep your website updated. You’ve got to be all of these different social media profiles. You’ve got to do your accounts and your expenses. You’ve also got to talk to your bureau and they probably have something they want you to update as well. It’s so many things all the time. “In the sense of a focused approach, I thought we’d try this.”
Is there a phase three or it’s just those two phases?
Phase three is a lot more fluid in my mind, but I imagine it would look something like if you go on the website and say, “I’m going to Rome.” I say, “These five organizations in Rome, the ones the members say are easiest to work with, you should probably call them up in advance and see if you can get another gig while you’re there.” That becomes possible as the community matures because you need some data. You need some relations. It’s definitely doable, but first things first.
Are you familiar with the FICO scores, credit scores here in the US? If you have good credit and you pay your credit cards on time and all that good stuff, you get a good credit score and that determines whether you get a good interest rate for a new car or home. I was thinking since you’re such a data tech guy, and the same thing with Uber, you get rated by the drivers. You rate the drivers and the drivers rate you. Everybody who rides an Uber has a rating on there. You also see what the driver’s rating is. I was envisioning that phase three or four, whatever it’s going to be, that there might be some rating from other fellow speakers. “This person is helpful and/or clients,” that could be an interesting way to keep this growing and incentivize people to keep their scores up. If it incentivizes people to be nicer to their Uber driver, I’m all for it. I would assume the same thing might be happening within this ecosystem.
[bctt tweet=”Fiction an immensely good way to gain a perspective. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
If we can find ways to say, “This organization is nice to work with and this speaker is helpful,” that would only strengthen the community. There is a need for it in the sense that if you don’t have any of these checks, anybody could theoretically come into the system and start spamming everyone in every direction. We don’t want that to happen because that would cost everyone in the system credibility. There needs to be some of you give a little, you get a lot, you give a little more, you get a lot more.
You also have great content on the site and in the emails you send out. In fact, one came in about negotiation tools. Everyone’s always interested in that concept. That’s a very hot topic.
It’s so fascinating. That is a world of its own. I started reading about it years ago and that blew my mind. I was dumb enough to think of it as a trench warfare game. I want to get this. I started reading these books. I lost all the color in my face. I was like, “You have not been a very bright man for a long time,” but it’s fun to learn.
Your wife using it on you, which made me laugh and I thought, “The fact that this concept of mirroring other people, that’s how empathy comes about.” When people do that, even hostage negotiations for the FBI, the negotiation person has to show some empathy for the criminal if they’re going to be able to negotiate with them. We’re not at that level of lives being at stake, but it’s typically you and two other speakers. It can feel like a life or death situation depending on how much you want that particular speaking engagement. This premise of enticing people to keep talking and mirroring where they are as opposed to jumping into what you want. Talk a little bit about your experience, either with your wife or what you’ve seen in business.
The mirroring thing is repeating back the last three words somebody says to do but in a downward inflection. If you do an upwards inflection, it’s going to sound like a question. You don’t have to make that question. You say it and that spurs the moment you’re talking. There are a lot of things that need to be done. You don’t just want to keep people talking. The reason you do it is you’d want to get them saying their fears out loud. There are always concerns. If somebody wants to hire you as a speaker, they probably checked out your YouTube, Facebook and LinkedIn and maybe talk to some people about you. There’s probably still something lingering in their mind.
They might not know what it is until they’ve said it. You’ve probably tried that too, that sometimes we’re a little hesitant to do something and we don’t know why. We’re talking about it and realized when you say, that’s probably what kept me back. The client can feel that too. Mirroring it is a way for them to offer information and you can dig into it and say, “I’ve sensed some hesitation in you when you say this, are you afraid? I don’t know enough about the line of work you’re in. Did you have a bad experience with a previous speaker?” A lot of the times, people say no to the speakers. It’s not because they don’t want that speaker, but because of something they experienced in the past or they’re worried about meeting the fees or something. If it’s not brought to light, you can talk about it. When you do mirroring, you’d get them to talk more so you can find out where they are in this whole discussion.
[bctt tweet=”Mirroring is a great negotiation tool. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
It reminds me of psychotherapy. When you go to see a therapist, let’s say you’re a married couple. You walk in the door and you say, “We’re here because our sex life is bad.” They call that a presenting problem in therapy. That’s what you think is the problem but if the therapist listens enough, mostly some underlying causes for the presenting problem. The reason that’s happening is there are some unspoken resentments or whatever else is going on that’s causing that problem. The same thing is true in business. You have some amazing content on SpeakersLoft about your fees and this great line about, “If they don’t give you a seat at the table, bring a folding chair.”
It seemed fitting. I wanted to say it wasn’t quoted by me, it was by an American woman who wasn’t represented properly in politics. She just kept at it and that’s an admirable way to go about things.
Almost everyone who has to sell anything themselves or product or service, please come up and you have to justify your fees. Do you have any suggestions around either the mindset of the value you’re providing or negotiation around fees?
SpeakersLoft did get the report on that. It depends on where you are in your stage. If you’ve been on stage several times and people are calling you, then a whole to your fee. Stand your ground. You need to get paid for this because what you deliver is a real product. People know that, but I also think people sometimes feel like imposters a little bit. You’re going in front of a lot of people and you’re saying, “I want somewhere between $7,500 or $12,000.” I have a very large data set. Some people get a lot of money for going on stage. One was $250,000, which was well done, well negotiate. It becomes a problem that confidence is an issue. There’s a thing you need to get over. You go from trying it a few times for free to saying, “I want to be paid maybe $3,000, $4,000, $5,000, $6,000,” if you’re in the US. You have to hold to it. If you break through that glass ceiling, it’s going to be easier. The first time is horrible. The first time is full of doubt, fears and stuff, but I generally say if you knew it and you’re in the US state, it takes about $4,000 or $5,000 if you are doing it no directly with the client.
It’s all about getting out of your comfort zone and asking for a little bit more. It’s based on confidence. One of my favorite quotes about confidence is from the tennis pro, Arthur Ashe, who said, “The key to success is confidence and the key to confidence is preparation.” He’d probably do that. You are extremely prepared. Do you have a final quote or a book you want to recommend?
I pretty much read books on anything I can find. I try to read a book about something I don’t know anything about. I’d highly recommend doing that because that makes it very hard to become walled in by preexisting beliefs. That would be my advice. I’m reading Philip Pullman’s books about his dark materials and Lyra, his world of demons and stuff. It’s a fiction. I find fiction an immensely good way to gain a perspective. I would highly recommend doing that as well.
The website is SpeakersLoft.com. If anyone is thinking of becoming a speaker, is the speaker, wants to grow their network, wants to get a little less lonely on the road, or wants to see a great way of creating something new as an entrepreneur, I recommend going to the website. Thanks again, Kristian. It’s been great having you.
It was my pleasure. Thank you.
Important Links
- SpeakersLoft
- Sameer Somal – Previous episode
- Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course
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You Don’t Have To Be Ruthless To Win With Jonathan Keyser
Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments
You don’t have to be ruthless to win. By using the Selfless Service Model, Jonathan Keyser skyrocketed his success. Jonathan is the Founder and thought leader behind Keyser Co., the largest tenant rep commercial real estate firm in Arizona and one of the most rapidly growing in the country. Today on The Successful Pitch, he talks with John Livesay about his journey – how he learned to be selfless, lost his way, and realized that the key to success is to help others. He also talks about the difference between being the kind of person that’s always hunting for the next deal versus developing relationships and growing them to get referrals and growth. Service is a choice and not something people are forced into, so don’t miss this episode to discover how you, too, can take a stand for culture over profits and still achieve extraordinary success.
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Listen to the podcast here
You Don’t Have To Be Ruthless To Win With Jonathan Keyser
Our guest is Jonathan Keyser, who’s the Founder and thought leader behind Keyser, which is the largest occupier services commercial real estate brokerage firm in Arizona. Through sheer determination and focus on selfless service, Jonathan is disrupting the commercial real estate industry. He’s a bestselling author, a media contributor and a strong supporter of the Conscious Capitalism movement. Jonathan is here to share his journey, mission and selfless service approach to business and his book, You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win. His book isn’t about him, it’s about you. Jonathan will share how you can activate selflessness in your life and see how and why this counterintuitive strategy can create extraordinary long-term success in your own business. Jonathan, welcome.
Thanks for having me.
I love this mindset of selflessness and You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win. Can you take us back to your own story of origin? Jonathan, were you a young lad, was it high school, was it college, when did you start to notice that being successful is about helping others?
My story is unusual compared to most people in business. I was a Christian missionary kid overseas in Papua New Guinea. For those who don’t know where that is, that’s right by Australia. I grew up being taught by my parents to love and serve, help, give and do good for others. When we got back from overseas, I had this realization, “We’re poor.” I didn’t like being poor. I decided that I was going to be rich. I got into commercial real estate because I wanted to be rich and a buddy of mine said, “You could make a lot of money doing this, and this is a personality fit for what your personality is like.”
I got into commercial real estate to make a bunch of money and I realized quickly this is a ruthless industry. Everybody is scratching, clawing and fighting their way to the top. I thought, “Love and serve, that’s what my parents taught me. They’re poor, I don’t want to be poor.” Ruthless, that’s what I see around me. These guys have fancy cars, huge homes, beautiful families, and exotic vacations. I became ruthless because I wanted that stuff but I was miserable and I was misaligned with my core values. I felt trapped, I felt I wanted the stuff but I felt I had to be ruthless to be successful.
[bctt tweet=”Stand for culture over profit. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
A number of years ago, a speaker at a conference gets up and starts talking about service and I’m looking at him and I’m thinking, “This guy is a successful guy. What the heck is he talking about?” He’s talking about how he’s created a successful enterprise by helping others succeed and I thought, “Huh.” I went up to him afterward and first I had to see if he was the real deal. I said, “Is that a shtick that you say, or is that real? Is that something that you practice?” He said, “No, I do.” I said, “How does it work?” He goes, “Think of it like you’re hunting. You grab your gun off the wall, you go out, you shoot a piece of whatever, you bring it back, skin it, eat it, and you’ve got to go do that all over again. What I’m describing is more like farming.” I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “Imagine that you’re out serving and helping as many people as you can all day, and each one of those acts of service is planting a seed.” He likened it to a citrus tree, which in my backyard here in Arizona where I’m based, citrus trees grow everywhere here.
I have a huge one in my backyard that’s a lemon tree but when it was little I thought it was half dead, I didn’t even think it was ever going to yield fruit. It took me a lot of nurturing, watering and pruning and all of that activity led to a tree that I can’t give the fruit away, and that’s where he likened it to. He said, “Over time, as you help all these people and you nurture these relationships, they yield fruit and you don’t have to go out and sell all over again.” I said, “That’s amazing. How do I do that?” That started this process where I decided I was going to reinvent myself. I came back to Arizona through my old cut-throat business plan away that was sales-oriented and helping everybody that I could, asking people one question, “How can I help you?” People are like, “What do you mean how can you help me?” I’m like, “What do you need?” I was helping people get jobs. I was helping people’s kids get connected.
I was doing anything they needed. I was helping people find doctors. I became a free community concierge and everybody in my industry thought I had bumped my head. They thought I’d gone off the deep end, here I was national rookie of the year for Grubb and Ellis and all of a sudden I’m doing what appears to be nonprofit work for free. When I went up to that speaker and asked him, “If this is true, if this works, how come no one else is doing it if this is such a strategy for success?” He said, “Because it takes too long.” I said, “What does that mean?” He said, “It will take you about five years.” I thought, “Okay.” That’s what I experienced too when I was back here building it, this is the long game. I was helping, serving, giving, nothing was coming back and through that process, people were questioning my sanity.
After five years, all those acts of service that I have been putting out there started to come back. I went from laughingstock at the company to top producer and then it started to take off. In an epiphany moment in 2012. As I sat there frustrated with my inability to scale a culture of service within a traditional commercial state firm environment, I realized that I had the opportunity to start, this needed a life of its own. If I could create a company and teach other people in commercial real estate brokerage how they could succeed by helping others succeed. If I could show that’s possible, I could change the industry. I could change the world and show other people that were in ruthless industries as well, “You can do this too.”
I came back from that trip where I had an epiphany and started my own firm. We’re the largest firm of our kind in Arizona and one of the fastest-growing in the country per Inc. 5000. I’m speaking all over the country. My book hit number one and it’s a wild experience because I know what it was like when I started it, and I know how many people were skeptical and thought I was crazy. The world has shifted and more and more people are starting to realize that, “Maybe this service stuff works.” My bottom-line message to the world is, you truly don’t have to be ruthless to win and in fact, I would argue that the most sustainable way to create long-term success is by helping as many people as possible. That’s what we’re about at Keyser and that’s why we’re growing quickly.
There might be some people out there saying, “I love the concept, Jonathan, but I don’t have five years. Can I still not be ruthless and be successful in the near short-term?” How do you answer that?
Selfless Service Model: The world has shifted and more and more people are starting to realize that selfless service actually works.
For me, it was a process where I had to convert myself from ruthless to selfless, and that was not an overnight or an easy process. One, you can’t rush growing a flower. It was a certain amount of relationship development that takes time. For those who are looking to make a quick buck, this is not the strategy. You can switch podcasts. This is for those who want to create long-term success. That’s the first point. The second point is knowing what I know now. Part of what I did in the book was take all the lessons that I’ve learned over the last number of years and pack it into this book so that you could create an extraordinary culture of selfless service for yourself. One simple way to look at it, for those who want a quick takeaway, without changing your entire business plan, without changing your entire strategy or your approach, bring a mindset into every interaction you have, then this mindset is one of, “How can I help this person?”
What I always try to do is every interaction I have, I’d be present. I listen to my own head, I don’t think about what I have to do afterward and what I have to do before. I’m right there in the moment and I try to focus on that person from a mindset of, “How can I ask the right questions? How can I listen deeply? How can I ensure that I’m identifying ways that I can help that person?” I don’t consider an interaction a success until I’ve identified three ways that I can help them. By helping them, I don’t mean how can I help them do a real estate transaction? I mean, how I can help them in ways that have nothing to do with how I make money? If you do that, what you’ll find is that the relationships you create, the speed, the trust, like Stephen Covey talks about, is much more rapid than going through a traditional sales route.
I believe that selfless service is selfish. I believe that self-interest to help other people because over the long-term, you’re going to create extraordinary success. It’s not an instant gratification game. The other problem is, a lot of people will think, “I gave somebody something and I helped them and there’s nothing coming back.” It’s like, “That’s not the point.” The point is you can’t outgive the universe. If you’re expecting something in return, you’re not doing it from a selfless service place. It’s almost creepy, it’s like this barter, but they don’t even know its barter. You’re ending to give them something of value, expecting something in return but pretending you’re not, but upset if you do. It’s crazy but everybody does it.
It reminds me of an artist who has to express whether they sing, paint, or write and if you don’t do it, you start to get depressed and I feel like that about speaking. We’re professional speakers. We speak because we love it but there’s a part of us that needs to get that out into the world. It’s part of our purpose and our mission. That’s what I feel listening to you. What resonates with you is, “I need to give and it’s part of my DNA.” I’m not attached to it coming back in any particular form and when we let go of that scorecard, what I’m hearing you say is, “Then we’re free to be our best selves.”
You’re a storytelling specialist. If you think back on all the relationships that are deep in your life from childhood and think about the people that you love the most and that you’d do anything for. It’s not the people that sold you a bill of goods. It’s not the people that took advantage of you in a weak moment. It’s the people that went above and beyond to help you. What if your entire strategy was, “How can I help all the people that if they appreciated it, could bring business to me in my firm?” How do you selflessly serve? We only have limited time. I’m not saying go and serve everyone because you can’t. Truthfully, I talk about this all the time in my keynotes, service has to be a choice. Not a choice, it’s an obligation. As soon as it’s an obligation, it turns into something that’s no longer service.
You can feel it if somebody hates their job and they don’t want to be an actor, they’re taking your order at a restaurant and they’re rolling their eyes and you can’t do that. Speaking of part one of your journey to selflessness, you have this great chapter called more than a pizza delivery guy, and I would love you to share that story.
[bctt tweet=”Service has to be a choice. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
When I was coming up, being poor, I was taking every opportunity that I could to try to figure out how I could make money. Before I even had the big, “I should go do something big with my life.” I was working at a burger joint. I was the cashier that wasn’t making much money and then someone, who became my buddy, drove the car through the window and he said, “Why are you working here?” I said, “I’m trying to make some money.” He goes, “You should come work over here at Domino’s Pizza.” I said, “Why is that?” He goes, “I make way more money than you. Look at my car.” I looked at his car and I’m like, “That’s a nice car. Can you get me an interview?” He said, “Yes.”
I went and I got an interview and I walked in and looked around. At the time, it was like me going to the commercial real estate brokerage firms where there are all these people that were successful and I said, “I want to be like that.” Here, it was the same thing and I was like, “How much money do you make? You make how much? You make $2,000 a month, are you serious? I could spend $2,000 a month.” I became the best delivery driver there and I figured out how to work the system. I figured out how to get the most runs and make the most money. As part of it, I realized that there could be more. I remember one day, I was sitting on my bed and my dad came in the room and he said, “Jonathan, you should do something big with your life.” I said, “What do you mean? I’m at Domino’s Pizza. I’m making $2,000 a month. I’ve made it.” He said, “You could be something great.” I said, “Like what?” He said, “You’re good at arguing, you could be an attorney.”
That whole idea that I could be an attorney, and I could wear a suit every day and be one of those guys that I saw on the TV, blew my mind. That was when the shift happened where I decided, “If my dad sees that in me, then maybe that is possible but if I’m going to be an attorney. I’m going to go to the best school.” I went to UCLA because I wanted to go to the best school I could get into. Once I was there, I had a professor talk me out of being an attorney, he told me, “I don’t think you’ll like it, Jonathan. You’d be bored. You should do something more entrepreneurial.” That’s how I stumbled into commercial real estate.
I love that journey from pizza boy to entrepreneur success, it’s fascinating. What I’m hearing through my storytelling lens is every good story has some mentors or Yoda in Star Wars, if you will. You had your father and a professor that took an interest in your story and shifted that narrative a little bit from, “There’s more to life than this.” You’re in your story sometimes, especially if you’re young, you can’t even imagine another life. Ironically, I met the CMO of Domino’s Pizza at a Coca-Cola event that I was speaking at, and I said, “Dennis, what’s your biggest marketing challenge?” He said, “Getting tech people to come work here.” Because his team has developed that tracking app. It’s no longer enough to get the pizza fast, people want to know, “Bob puts your pizza in the oven and it will be out in six minutes, and then Sue is going to drive it and checking the order before it goes in the box.”
That’s become a huge interactive way for people to get involved with the brand emotionally. He said, “We have to recruit tech people. We’re a pizza company that uses tech and that’s not doing it.” They used the rebirth storytelling genre and say to people who are in tech, “We’re an eCommerce company that happens to sell pizza. We’re using artificial intelligence to predict if you order the same pizza every Friday at 7:00. Odds are, the minute you click on the app or pick up the phone, we can put that order in, the pizza and maybe shave a minute of your delivery time off.” It’s come a long way from when you were delivering pizza. I thought you’d like that little update. Storytelling, technology and data are all coming together.
Selfless Service Model: If you’re expecting something in return, you’re not really doing it from a selfless service place.
You can see it in my industry as well. If you look at what we’re doing, the whole idea of bringing selflessness into an industry that’s not known for it, it’s revolutionary. There’s nothing like my book out there in the commercial real estate space. When we went number one in the commercial real estate category, I was blown away because people are interested in learning how they can do this for themselves. That’s why I wrote the book because I want people to say, “If this crazy guy can do it in commercial real estate and he can succeed and win in an industry as cutthroat, predatorial, and as ruthless as commercial real estate brokerage, you could do it anywhere.”
We have people that for the first time they have a broker that they can trust, someone that cares about them. You look at commercial real estate brokerage, it’s one of the most conflicted industries in the world. You have these big firms that say they represent both sides of transactions, it’s crazy. Here we come bringing this conflict free, deep level of service orientation, we talk about stories. I remember a client of ours, Marissa, who had a fast-growing technology company. I remember going into her and having a conversation. We explained all the things that we did and then throughout the process as we walked her through all the different steps and found her a flexible and great new office space for her people, and she said, “Jonathan, I’ve worked with a lot of brokers and I’ve never experienced that level of service. I swear you guys worked 3 to 4 times harder than anybody I ever saw and/or experienced.” I said, “That’s the point.”
The point is that when you go above and beyond for people, it creates extraordinary success. Why do I say that? Because not only is Marissa a client for life, but Marissa is out telling all of her friends, “Those Keyser guys, they are the best commercial real estate brokers firm. You have to talk to them.” That creates this pipeline of referrals. Where most people at traditional firms laugh at us and say, “Those guys do so much unnecessary work.” We’re used to the sales funnel, put as much in, push it through as fast as possible, get the deal done, but they miss the relational part of that. They miss the value creation opportunity, which is where we love to play.
[bctt tweet=”Are you a hunter or farmer? ” username=”John_Livesay”]
That goes back to what you said which is, “Do you want to be a hunter, or do you want to be a farmer?” It encapsulates everything that you said. The other thing I admire about you, Jonathan, is your ability to break through the clutter with clever phrases. The book itself, You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win, our brains go, “What? That’s the opposite of everything I’ve ever heard.” You have this chapter here called Through Green-colored Glasses, if that doesn’t intrigue people to want it, “I know rose color, what is a green-colored glass?” As you’re continuing to read this, look for little moments that Jonathan has peppered into his conversations and his stories to pull you in so you can start to think, “What can I say or do in my business book marketing day-to-day conversations that’s going to make me stand out?” Now that I’ve set that up, we have to learn what do you mean by looking through green-colored glasses?
The biggest example to follow up on the point you made, the biggest example of where I do that is this idea of the moniker selfless service. I don’t like the term servant leadership because it carries all these religious and obligatory undertones, and especially with all the scandals in the churches and all of that stuff, I felt it needed a fresh statement. It’s not tied to religion. It’s not tied to anything, it’s selflessness. It’s living selflessness in business. I was frustrated and I was trying to figure out how I was going to grow and build this practice of selflessness within commercial real estate, within an industry known for the opposite. I heard about a coach that was a super coach, Steve Hardison, and I got up the courage to go meet with him and I sat down in his office and one of the first things he said to me was, “If you work with me, I’m going to introduce yourself to yourself for the first time.” All of me went like, “That is the greatest line ever. That is such BS.” The truth is, that’s what he did. He’s my coach and one of the most extraordinary people in the world. It shows how skeptical I was for everything.
The next thing he said was, “You see these glasses?” He held up an imaginary pair of glasses, he said, “When you put those glasses on,” and imagine you’re driving in your car listening to me right now. Imagine grabbing an imaginary pair of glasses, putting them on your eyes and he said, “What do you see?” I said, “I see green.” He said, “Exactly. Everything that you see is through the lens of your personal filter and your filter, let’s say for the argument of this point is green. What I’m going to do is I’m going to help you take off the green glasses and see things as they are so that you could make the substantive changes in your life that you need to make to get what you want out of life.” That is exactly to me, this whole point of selflessness, I was selfless underneath because it was pounded into me.
All of us, our nature longs to be in service to other people, it brings us joy, it brings us contentment, it does give us everything in life we want, but we compartmentalize it somehow. We have this idea that we’re supposed to love, serve, give and help, but we do that in our personal lives where it matters, with our kids and our families and our church groups. Then we get into business and we have this idea that we’re supposed to put on a tough suit and fight for number one. All I’m saying to the world is, “What if that same skillset that’s deep in your DNA, that matters and that works where it matters the most could work in business?” There’s a big gap between conceptually getting that, and knowing how to do it.
Many people kept coming to us, they’d walked through our office here at Keyser in Scottsdale, our global HQ. They’d say, “You can feel this selfless culture here. How have you done this?” We created the Keyser Institute and I wrote the book to train, empower, and certify that next generation of selfless leader and teach people the practical how-tos of how to put selflessness into practice in a way that’s not going to make you go broke or make you be taken advantage of or trampled, but make you win. In our business, we’re winning more than we’re losing, and people are like, “How in the world are those crazy Keyser people, that all they talk about is love and service, they don’t do any traditional sales, how did they win and beat us in that presentation?” That’s what I’m trying to do for people, show people the path where they could do this for themselves.
[bctt tweet=”The most sustainable way to create long-term success is by helping as many people as possible. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
One of the key reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast is this chapter you wrote about, Be Disruptive and Embrace Change. My whole TEDx Talk, Be The Lifeguard of Your Own Life, is about that topic. It’s rare to find somebody like you that’s embracing selflessness, not having to be ruthless and embracing change, I go, “Who? I’ve got to know you.” Tell us, how do you create a culture in your own company? When you’re hired to give keynote talks on this, how do you help other companies that know they have to embrace change but are afraid of it?
We’ve come up with a three-step process which we teach in the book and we call it, reinvention from the inside out. What does that mean? Like Gandhi said, “You have to be the change you want to see in the world.” Reinvention starts with yourself. You’ve got to start with yourself. For everybody that’s reading that tries to gain this, let me warn you, part of why it took me long is because I was trying to gain it. It wasn’t authentic. You have to create yourself into a selfless leader. You might ask, “How do I do that?” That’s why I wrote the book, that’s why we have the Keyser Institute. At a fundamental level, you have to change yourself.
The next step, the layer number two is creating a company culture around it. How do you create a company culture around it? We write about it in the book, but there are a lot of things you can do. One of which is, look to attract and retain the right people and remove the wrong people. Then create a culture based upon principles that all support that culture you want to make and keep that culture alive. We talk about and train how to do that. The third level is the community. As my good friend, John Mackey, over at Conscious Capitalism that cofounded Whole Foods likes to say, “You have all these external stakeholders that most people don’t think about.” It was great to see all those CEOs stand up at the business round table and say, “That’s more than shareholder value.” Not that shareholder value doesn’t matter, it’s massively important. You have to make money to have an impact, but there’s more than that. How do you treat your vendors? How do you treat your partners?
If you’re a company that’s known for being selfless, and it starts from the inside out, because a fish rots from the head. If you’re a leader that’s not selfless, not willing to reinvent yourself but wants to go tell everybody you have a selfless culture, it will fail. If you truly want to create success through service, it’s all here in the book, You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win. Those that need additional help, we have tons of free resources on RuthlessBook.com and we have the Keyser Institute to train, empower and certify that next generation of selfless leader.
You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win: The Art of Badass Selfless Service
Jonathan, I can’t thank you enough for giving us those three breakdowns. What’s fascinating to me when you’re talking about point number two, attract and retain top talent. If companies are focused on, “Let me get the best talent and not worry about onboarding them properly or let alone keeping them happy,” then they have to start hunting again. Your whole culture is service and make people feel important and it works for your clients and it works with your top talent. You have explained and tantalized enough to make sure that we want to buy You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win. If people want to engage you for your own expertise either as a keynote speaker or to come in as a consultant and help other companies create this new culture that’s been successful in your industry and translates across any industry, then they know how to reach you.
RuthlessBook.com, you can find out anything on speaking and on the book. Keyser.com, that’s our company website and we’d be happy to engage. We have a ton of free resources. We have tons of ways that we can help. I’d be happy to do a free strategy call for anyone who wants to talk about their culture and how we could potentially help. Anybody that’s interested in having a true real estate partner that looks out for their best interests, we’d love to help as well.
One final comment, John, on that last point you made. The hardest part is having talented people that are culturally misaligned and making excuses for why you keep them on board. That is what I see most leaders making mistakes are doing. Frankly, I made those mistakes when I started the company because we had people that talked the big game and once they got in, they weren’t what they said they were and they were living the antithesis of what we preach, but they represented real revenue. When that happens, that’s when you know, that’s where the rubber meets the road, are you a selfless leader? Are you willing to stand for culture over profits? If you do that in the long-term, even though there might be some short-term heads, that you’ll have long-term success. Every time I removed a misaligned person, the whole organization breathes a huge sigh of relief.
Jonathan, thanks again for being such a great guest and sharing your wisdom.
Thanks for having me, John. I appreciate all you do in the world.
Important Links
- You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win
- Keyser
- Conscious Capitalism
- Be The Lifeguard of Your Own Life – TEDx Talk
- Keyser Institute
- Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course
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The Five Questions With Dr. James Mellon
Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments
Life always has many questions in store for us, but a precious few of them are actually, in the long run, productive. Dr. James Mellon is the founding Spiritual Director of Global Truth Center Los Angeles and author of the new book, The Five Questions. James joins John Livesay to give you a little taste of the titular five questions that you should be asking yourself. There are certain questions—and answers—that move the needle in terms of the progress you want to see for yourself. But the journey to finding these questions and answers begins with believing in yourself and your own capabilities. After all, life’s too short to keep comparing yourself to other people.
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Listen to the podcast here
The Five Questions With Dr. James Mellon
Dr. James Mellon is the Founding Spiritual Director of Global Truth Center, which has launched a new way to experience a body, mind, spirit connection in a program called Welcome Home. James’ philosophy of life is enlightenment through entertainment. He wears many hats in the entertainment world from being a Broadway actor, director, writer and producer. He’s a sought-after speaker in the field of personal growth. He is also the author of the book, Mental Muscle: Sixteen Weeks of Spiritual Bootcamp and has a new book, The Five Questions. James, welcome to this show.
It’s so great to be here, John.
You’ve been on the planet for a while and you’ve done a few things that have made a big impact. That’s a part of why I was so excited to be able to put a spotlight on you. I know you’ve helped so many people including myself, get clear on who they are and the impact that’s possible. A lot of the people who tune in to The Successful Pitch Podcast are entrepreneurs and they’re looking for a little bit of inspiration, motivation, and maybe some tips on when it’s time to pivot and make a change. I also want to talk to you about resilience because you’re the expert in that and that’s one of the keys to being an entrepreneur. One of the things I like to ask my guests is to tell us your own story of origin. You have so many stories and you can go back as far as you want. You can go back to being someone who wanted to be a priest in Philadelphia or you can jump right into your decision to get to Broadway. You start the story wherever you want.
Mine does start out as a kid in Philadelphia who could see the world outside of Philadelphia as something enticing and exciting. I always knew that I would be a Broadway, movie star or a television star. I had a sense that I was made for something bigger than Northeast Philadelphia. Even with all of the race consciousness and the familial encouragement or I should say lack of encouragement, making the world a big, bad place, a place that’s difficult to get into and succeed at. This is where it all began for me. I never listened to what other people had to say about what I wanted to do. I went and did it. I’ve always been that person to jump in before I knew what I would hit.
The Five Questions. Never listen to what other people say about what you want to do.
Automatically, I’m starting to think of Broadway musicals because that’s a part of who you are from Good Morning Baltimore to There’s Gotta Be Something Better Than This to Sweet Charity.
Even the one that I started on Broadway, which was West side story and that was against all odds because I didn’t have the dance training that Jerome Robbins was looking for. I didn’t have the singing training that Leonard Bernstein was looking for and I didn’t have the acting chops that any of them were looking for. Somehow when I stood on that stage and auditioned, it was like, “I’m here and I’m the right person for this. Give me a chance,” and they did. You’re right. When you decide to do something like Tony sings in West Side Story, “Something is coming.”
[bctt tweet=”Life is too short to compare yourself-tick frickin tock.” username=”John_Livesay”]
My whole life I have believed something’s coming. Even now, I still feel something’s coming. I don’t feel that I’m in the, as Jane Fonda likes to talk about, the third act of her life, I don’t feel that. I feel that there’s something new always coming. You used the word pivot. Pivot is so important to my life and I noticed yours too. If something doesn’t feel right, we need to pivot and not be afraid to pivot. Too much of the world is spent dealing with what they are accepting out of life as opposed to, “I don’t want to only accept this. I want to actually be passionate about something.” I pivot whenever I need to pivot and I don’t worry about what people will think about it.
This concept of jumping in without “having all the qualifications or the background that a lot of people think you need to do” is a helpful thing for us to double click on. How do you get the confidence or the mindset to do that?
How would you get the confidence to do something like that? It’s innate in all of us. It’s right there for us to tap into. The question is, “Do we tap into our natural authentic selves or do we tap into what the race consciousness around us is telling us?” For most people, unfortunately, we tap into what we’re being told as opposed to what we know and I mean in a deep sense not what I know because of what I’ve been told but what do I know in spite of what I’ve been told.
I want to get right to your book, The Five Questions, because I want to make sure we cover what those questions are. Think of it as a roadmap, readers, for your own entrepreneurial journey as well as your own personal growth journey. As you’re learning these questions, you can think about what your answers are for both personal and professional. Then I’ll ask you, James, how you’ve applied some of that on your own pivot. Tell us what those five questions are and we’ll go back to each one.
These questions came to me because I was caught off-guard. As you know, I’m a busy person and I tend to do a lot of things at once. I was at a retreat center and one of my partners came up to me and said, “I’m looking forward to your workshop.” I said, “When is my workshop?” They said, “It’s in an hour.” I hadn’t realized my workshop was that day. I went and sat under a tree and I said, “What do I need to know here?” All of a sudden these questions downloaded to me and they came in a specific order. It’s this, the first question was, “Why am I here?” Followed by, “What wants to know me?” Then came, “What wants me to release it?” “What is mine to do right now?” The last one was, “Do I know how great I am?” Those five questions came and I wrote them down. It was almost like a download. I wrote them down and thought, “I can work from these.”
[bctt tweet=”Money is a demonstration of integrity and passion on the right path.” username=”John_Livesay”]
I went into the conference hall and there were about 200 people there. They were all sitting and I asked them all to lay down on the ground and I said, “I’m going to go through some questions for us to start this off with.” When I started and I asked the first question, “Why am I here?” I was flooded with 100 other questions. The first question took about 30 minutes and people were crying, moving around and wriggling. I was like, “There’s something here.” When I got to, “What wants to know me?” I explained that we live in an energetic field of ideas and desires. Elizabeth Gilbert in her book, Big Magic, talks about how these ideas come up and you either take them or you don’t. If you don’t, someone else will because they’re all such viable living things and entities.
What wants to know me is, what am I allowing in my passion, intelligence and my wisdom? What am I allowing myself to absolutely engage in my own mind? It’s been a pretty amazing journey for me with these five questions and how they play out. That first question, “Why am I here?” I think of you and your amazing journey through your many careers and there are moments when something is ending like, let’s say your work at Condé Nast. When something ends, the question, “Why am I here?” can be answered on so many different levels. Why am I here at the end of this journey but why am I here at the beginning of this journey?
When entrepreneurs can ask themselves that question, why am I here? Why am I starting this company? What is my bigger purpose than just making money? They define a culture and attract the right people to their team, which attracts the ideal customers. People go, “I don’t need to figure out what my culture is in my company yet. It’s only me or me and a couple of people.” I tell people, “No. You need to know from the beginning why you’re doing this beyond profit.” That’s what people are responding to energetically.
This concept of what wants to know me, as an entrepreneur, a lot of people have a lot of ideas and in fact, so many of them that I help, say, “Don’t try to boil the ocean. Figure out one thing. Who you help and what problem you solve.” This concept of creating time through meditation or any other options. Google and big companies that now have nap rooms. A lot of people leading tech companies are saying, “One of the keys to my success is meditation and allowing other ideas to come in that are yours and not reacting to the world and emails all the time.” This question of “What wants to know me?” do you have any advice or suggestions for people of what they need to do to create that space to hear their own ideas?
It’s funny you should say that. One of my newest projects is a live space people will go to called Welcome Home. The whole purpose of creating Welcome Home is to give people an opportunity to go somewhere, into a room, into space which is our physical spaces, although they can also be entered virtually, to allow yourself to decompress. Get rid of the outside voices and world, to give yourself the opportunity to focus your mind on only you and allowing nature and nurture and all of the intentional energies out there to flow in and get into the fluidity of this thing called creative mind.
[bctt tweet=”EGO-Enter Greatness Only” username=”John_Livesay”]
You asked the question about, “Why I am here and what wants to know me about an entrepreneur?” One of the smartest things an entrepreneur can do or anyone with a new idea is to ask the question at the onset of something. “Why am I here?” If we find out that the only reason I’m here is that I feel I have to be here or it’s going to make me money, money cannot be the end goal. Money for me is always the demonstration of the integrity and passion that wants to be brought forth. Money is just a natural outcome of when someone is on the right path. Sometimes we hear, “Why am I here?” We may hear, “I’m here for all the wrong reasons.” It’s like you. I’m here for all the wrong reasons. I need to pivot. I need to ask myself, “What can I do to find what’s mine to do?”
The Five Questions. If something doesn’t feel right, you can’t be afraid to pivot.
This concept of, “What do I need to release?” Bob Iger was quoted in the New York Times launching Disney+ saying, “They realized they needed to release something true to only making money from the model of traditional television of owning ABC.” He started the streaming service and he said, “If you don’t innovate, you die.” Sometimes you’re even killing off your existing revenue source. In terms of spirituality and how people are doing things, what you’ve created with welcome home is the Disney+ of church.
Thank you.
You’re creating a place for people who want to watch ABC can still do that and go to church whether virtually or online or go to Global Truth Center or in going to hear you speak every Sunday. For others who are like, “That’s not me or I never did like that format,” you’re doing your own version of Disney +/Netflix for this place of Welcome Home. It’s important too because I’m so big on the story of every origin that Welcome Home is not a destination like, “I’m going home to see my family for the holidays.” It’s a welcome home to yourself going inside. Is that accurate?
That is absolutely right. Welcome Home, meaning that there is a place in you and a place in me that when we’re in that place, we’re in the same place. That’s what Namaste means, when you honor the sacredness and another person. John, you are so correct. I am a minister, a Reverend, I have my Doctorate in Consciousness Studies and yet I lean away from the religious side of even my own ministry. Everyone has a ministry in life. Even whoever’s the head of Sony has a ministry. It’s called Sony. I lean away from the religious side of it because, to be honest, that’s one of those dinosaurs and albatrosses that are dying out. You watch a lot of these religions and churches people aren’t supporting it anymore.
[bctt tweet=”You can’t really run very far if you are weighted down with all of the things that have no purpose in your life anymore.” username=”John_Livesay”]
There are still the holdovers, the ones that still want that type of experience but as the younger generation moves up and becomes the older generation, they want experiential. They want to feel what it feels like to be spiritual. They don’t want to be bored to death being told what it’s all about or asked to do some archaic exercises of prayers and whatever. What they want is to feel it. They want to be involved in it. That’s where we came up with the idea of Welcome Home. I still love Sunday services at Global Truth Center. I love being on stage, singing, band and fellowship. I love all of that but I recognize that there are many people who want something different so we came up with Welcome Home. It’s a series of 45-minute sessions where you go in and either have a sound bath, heart breath meditation or heart math. There are so many different modalities out there that can get us tapped into our inner self so you can finally say, “Why am I here? What wants to know me?”
What is the sound bath for those people who might not be aware of that?
A sound bath is a concert. I remember when we used to go to hear concerts and people still do. It’s a concert. It’s allowing your audible senses to be bathed in sound. Usually, those sounds are glass bowls, chimes, gongs, some rain. Also, those with big tusks that have all those pebbles in them and you turn them upside down and it sounds like a rain forest. It’s a beautiful place to go to. You usually lie on a mat with a beautiful pillow and a blanket and you’re surrounded in love and sound. People take about 45 minutes out of their day to go be immersed in this sound bath.
It gets you out of your head and all the frustrations of worrying about something. You’re fully present and you’re immersed in this experience that can reset your button. This concept that we recharge our phones and yet we somehow think we don’t ever need to recharge our bodies or our minds.
If you recharge your phone, why wouldn’t you be willing to recharge your body? You know what happens when you don’t recharge your phone.
That will be the visual image for Welcome Home. It will be a phone being charged in. It will be the future of us all becoming chips inside of us. The other question of what’s mine to do right now, everyone, whether they’re an entrepreneur or not struggles with time management. So much is coming at us with tweets and text messages and things that we weren’t expecting and our day gets away from us. How does that question allow us to make sure we are in fact doing the right thing at the right moment?
All of these questions take into consideration that you’ve given yourself space and time to let these questions answer you. It’s not about you answering them. If you allow that question to answer itself through you, sometimes we hear things that we may not want to hear like what’s mine to do right now? We may be shocked to find out that a lot of what we’re doing isn’t mine to do right now.
The Five Questions. If you recharge your phone, why wouldn’t you be willing to recharge your body?
The keyword there is mine versus delegating it to someone else.
Even the question, “What wants me to release it?” I have been on the other end of that question and found out that what wants me to release it is a relationship that no longer works for me. It could be a business partner, a friend or a family relation. It could be anything. You can’t run far if you are weighed down with all of these things that have no purpose in your life anymore. You’ve got to let it go and ask, “What’s mine to do right now?” Now you have the ability to go do whatever that is when you’ve let go of everything else. For the businessman and entrepreneur to say, “What’s mine to do right now?” If I were in the middle of it or at the beginning of a business project and I asked myself that question, “What’s mine to do right now?” I might give myself the opportunity to get out of thinking of the seven billion things that need to get done for this company to succeed and hear the first thing that I need to do.
It’s trusting your intuition to let it bubble up as opposed to, “Last night, I wrote down the number one thing is this.” Things might’ve changed and you’re still obsessed and attached to what you think has to get done first. It may not be the case. You said something about being burdened with so many things to do. A lot of this concept of what’s mine to release now might be being obsessed with what other people are doing aka what’s my competition doing and comparing ourselves to other people. That can be a burden. What advice do you have for people who want to release that trap?
It’s a big trap. You put your finger on it beautifully, it’s competition. Not to go all spiritual on you but for me, spiritually speaking, there is no competition. I understand that there is competition in the world. I am in the world. I succeed well in the world but for myself, I have to be clear that when it comes to truth, spirituality and energy of life, there is no competition. Energy is always expanding, creative, growing and moving. If I put my attention on what someone else is doing, not only am I not moving forward, I’ve stopped to pay attention. I’ve heard you talk about Michael Phelps. If you take a second to look at your competitor, you have lost because you’re not doing what’s yours to do.
[bctt tweet=”It is knowing who you are that allows you to step onto the largest stage possible.” username=”John_Livesay”]
There we go. It’s full circle because if you were to analyze what percentage of my day am I focused on what’s mine to do versus what’s everyone else is doing, how they’re ahead of me, how many more likes they have, how many more books they sold or widget, how much more money they’ve raised, or 101 things to be focused on besides what’s mine to do. You said, “I’m spending 30% or 40% of my time subconsciously thinking and focusing on that.” I’m reading the news and I’m thinking about, “Look at what that person did or got that I didn’t get.” What happened? Will you focus some of that energy on what I can do best?”
What would I do with all that time if I wasn’t doing that? I love Holland Taylor. I interviewed her for a show I’m doing called The Inner View and Holland was one of my guests. Someone in the audience, I forget who asked her, but it was a question about, “Do you ever worry about opportunities in what may go to other actresses?” She leaned forward and said, “I don’t have time for that stuff. My life is continuing to move forward, tick-freaking-tock.” I laughed because she put her finger on it. She said, “I’m living my life. Meryl Streep lives her life. Everybody else does what they do. I don’t need to be Meryl Streep. I personally don’t need to be Tony Robbins, Deepak Chopra or Marianne Williamson. I am who I am. They are who they are and we’re all doing what is best for us to do at any given moment.”
This final question of, “Do I know how great I am?” This is one that most people might struggle with. I’d love for you to talk about the difference between confidence and arrogance as you see it.
That’s a great way to put that. I always look at the ego. We think of ego sometimes as a bad thing when someone says, “That guy has such a big ego.” You better have a big ego. You better have a big understanding of who you are because it’s your belief in yourself. It’s your knowing who you are that allows you to step onto the largest stage possible. I don’t have a problem with ego whatsoever. Here’s the difference. You said confidence and arrogance. Confidence comes from an ego that knows who it is. It’s entertaining greatness only as opposed to people in spiritual terms, say edging God out, meaning edging the greatness out.
Confidence to me is someone who knows who they are. I tell this story a lot about Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise was my roommate back in the 1980s or early ‘80s. I was starring on Broadway and West Side Story and he was this teenager from New Jersey who wanted to be an actor. He would stay at my apartment because we had the same manager. Tom used to tell me all the time he was going to be a movie star and I used to laugh. I’d say, “Tom, you’re 5’7”. I didn’t see it but it didn’t matter that I didn’t see it. It didn’t matter who didn’t see it. It just mattered that he saw it because he had confidence and certainty about who he was that you could not fight him off of that. He’s also the nicest guy in the world. Arrogance is when you’re actually insecure about yourself. You don’t know who you are so you put up this pompous air of, “This is how great I am,” but you don’t believe it. Let me tell you as a director, when an actor walks into a room and they don’t believe in themselves, they barely have to speak and I already see it.
Listening to you describe these wonderful questions again and I can hear this over and over. It seems to me that there’s a circular connection to all this when I’m thinking visually. If we answer, do I know how great I am, ties into my belief in myself, which stems from answering the first question of, “Why am I here? What is my purpose?” Does the answer to why I’m here help the foundation to answer this is how I know how great I am because I know why I’m here? Is it all connected?
It’s totally all connected, John. Those five questions can be used in any situation. When you peel the onion back, every time you peel a layer back, start over, ask the questions again because if I know who I am and I know how great I am, when I say, why am I here? I’m going to get a different answer.
I promised at the beginning of this that I would ask you about resilience. You’ve had two major incidents in your life that most people would have a difficult time jumping back from. If we’re going to have things happen to us and it’s not a matter of if we get back up but I’m keen on how fast do we get back up. From being diagnosed with cancer to having your daughter tragically die at nineteen in a car accident, you’ve had more than your share of challenges in life. I don’t want people to go, “What an easy-breezy life this guy’s had from Broadway to this to that.” You’ve had all of that too. Somehow you model for yourself and other people this ability to be resilient. My big question to you is, what advice do you have for people on how they can be more resilient?
When you look at the word, resilience, resilience is the capacity to recover quickly, to recover quickly from some difficulty. When I was diagnosed with stage four cancer, to be perfectly honest, as devastating as it was to look at on the surface, I never ever felt that it would kill me even though they gave me a few months to live. They said in March I would be gone by August if they couldn’t find everything. They had no idea where it was. There was something in me that said, “You’re not going anywhere.” I had to go through five months of chemo, radiation, tearing things out of my neck. I went down to 130 pounds. For a six-foot male, that’s not a great weight. The whole time there was something behind me, which is my true self that said, “You’ll be fine. Keep going.” I’ve never had to get back on my feet through that. I don’t think I ever left my feet so I was pretty clear.
When my daughter died, which we’re about to reach the anniversary, if resilience is the capacity to recover quickly, perhaps I haven’t been resilient because I don’t think I will ever recover from that. However, what I did do quickly was to make sure everybody knew that just because the worst thing that I could have ever imagined happening to me happened, it did not change my faith. It didn’t change what I believed about God and about myself. It didn’t change how I would answer, do I know how great I am or that life may unfold perfectly no matter what.
It’s caused me to go deeper into what is life and what is death and try to have a better understanding of that. A day after my daughter passed, someone wrote on my Facebook page, and they didn’t mean it in a mean way. They wrote that they were sorry that it happened and perhaps I would reconsider the many things I’ve said as a minister and as a speaker. When I say, “Life unfolds perfectly and there’s always good in everything.” This person brought that forward and my reaction to it was so visceral that I went back onto the stage within three days of her passing and did not leave the stage. I stayed in my pulpit and my work. I have still stayed within my work this whole time. It was in reaction to that. I still do believe all this and no one is going to argue me down just because I have suffered something because my daughter’s fine. Wherever she is and whatever her next journey is, she’s fine. I miss her. I can’t even tell that I miss her every day. I miss her every moment of every day.
You always remember why you’re here. That’s the key to resilience that goes back to that answer to that first question.
“Why am I here?”
That purpose and reason for being allows you to be such a light and a gift to all of us. How can people find your book, The Five Questions, and find out about Welcome Home? What’s the best place for people to do all that?
If you go to JamesMellon.org, you will find me and my programs and you will find the book there. It’s simple. You’ll find me there. I don’t send people, I don’t even like using the word church anymore, to my center my spiritual center. If you’re interested in that, it’s called The Global Truth Center. You’ll find what goes on there. To me, it’s all one thing. Thank you for saying it at the top of the show, enlightenment through entertainment. I’m an entertainer. I will always be an entertainer, actor, singer, dancer, director, writer and minister. I get to take all that I do, wrap it up into one thing and focus my attention wherever that takes me.
James, I can’t thank you enough for reminding us that we get to remember who we are, figure out where we want to go, what wants to know us and all the other great questions that we can now ask ourselves in any situation.
Thank you, John. This has been a real treat.
Important Links
- Dr. James Mellon
- Global Truth Center
- Welcome Home
- Mental Muscle: Sixteen Weeks of Spiritual Bootcamp
- Big Magic
- The Inner View
- Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course
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