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Secrets To Getting A Standing Ovation With Leanne Christie

Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments

17.05.21

Getting a standing ovation is a wonderful experience. It shows that you have done something amazing that people want to commend you for. CEO of House of O, Leanne Christie, often referred to as the million-dollar maker having steered and coached speakers throughout her career, knows exactly what it feels like to get a standing ovation. She chats with John Livesay and reveals the secrets to becoming an excellent speaker that can speak from a topic and be an expert on a topic. She believes that a speaker who gets a standing ovation is one that speaks from the heart and is of service to the audience.

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Listen to the podcast here

Secrets To Getting A Standing Ovation With Leanne Christie

Our guest is Leanne Christie, who is an expert on getting speakers jobs and getting clients speakers. She said, “When speakers realize it’s not all about them and has a strategy, they are successful and those that get standing ovations are the ones that speak from the heart and are of service to the audience.” Enjoy the episode.

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Our guest is Leanne Christie who is the Chief of Everything O, that is the House Of O. She founded Ovations Speakers Bureau many years ago and several years ago, ODE Management, which is a speaker management company. She’s proud to be the only true global speaker management company in the world. With staffs in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres, the company manages speakers in Europe, America, Asia and Australia.

She has been coaching speakers under the banner of Standing Ovations and she has often been referred to as the Million Dollar Maker having steered and coached many speakers throughout their career to earn over $1 million in their speaking revenue. If you know anything about the business, you know that is an elite group of people. Leanne, first of all, huge thanks. It’s lovely to have you, connecting with me in Austin and you in Australia.

My favorite opening question for guests is to ask your own story of origin. You could go back to childhood, school or wherever you’ve got the interest of like, “I find this concept of managing speakers and getting people to hire speakers interesting.” I’m guessing there was something along your own path that first made you think, “Hmm.” Most people don’t wake up and might say, “I want to be a doctor or a lawyer.” I’m sure there’s a great story of how it all started.

I worked for a trainer and I was selling training. Where my bureau is a little bit different is that I had that passion for what I call the long tail and staying of service to clients for a long time because of my training background. When I was doing that, I was 25 years old and I was earning $25,000 a year. I thought that was good because I worked out. I was clever. By the time I was 30, I might earn $30,000 a year. I started waking up when I started selling and thinking, “I’ve got to see how I was thinking small.” I asked the guy I was working for if I could on commission. He got a consultant in and the consultant looked at the red sports car that he bought and had a look at the tractor that went on the farm that he bought and he said, “I don’t think that would work out well for you.” I went on commission myself and that’s where my speaker’s bureau started. You can’t be on more commission than starting a speaker bureau.

You are all in on yourself. You are betting on yourself in a big way, aren’t you?

It’s true. My husband didn’t want to mortgage the house or anything at the time. He felt it was too big of a gamble but I had $200 in a separate account. I started with $200 on the kitchen table, 100 calls a day, every single day. Fifty calls, you can have lunch. Fifty calls, you can knock off. If I hadn’t done 50 calls and I was getting hungry, dial faster.

[bctt tweet=”Know what your takeaways are when you are a speaker.” username=”John_Livesay”]

That is funny to dial faster. There is a reward in there and it worked.

A lot of people look at, what is the one thing that maybe I haven’t been doing enough of that I don’t want to talk about? It’s speaking of fun and talking to people. It’s connection. That’s what the business was based on.

A lot of people know what a speaker is. We know that they are speaking bureaus but this concept of a speaker management company, there are some similarities between the world of acting having agents and managers. I would love you to explain to the readers what the distinction is and how you are able to do both.

First of all, the distinction. My cofounder in ODE helped me get this because it’s quite a simple way of talking about it. It’s like the other side of the same coin. A speaker bureau finds speakers for their clients. A speaker management company finds clients for their speakers. It’s the same industry but it’s the complete other side of the coin. It’s a very different viewpoint.

There might be a lot of overlap. For example, if a client comes to you and says, “We have a big meeting coming up. We are looking for a sales speaker. Do you know any?” You were like, “I do. That’s my job.” You give them some suggestions. On the flipside, a speaker comes to you and I’m guessing, you can correct me if I’m wrong, before they get management, they usually have to have some track record and some success under their belt. They said, “I’m looking for someone who can manage my brand and my career.” Does it require them to be exclusive with you or no?

Management is more than exclusive but we manage their business. Does that make sense?

Standing Ovation: Connection is what the business is based on.

Yes.

I already always had a non-exclusive bureau and our point of difference was unbiased advice. That’s what we sold a lot. For me, to put the management company inside the bureau made it too exclusive. This is just a personal choice. By the way, my speaker bureau does have exclusives because there are people who come to me in the management company that isn’t quite at that level yet, so they joined the bureau. One of the differences that I have chosen to do with ODE is speaker management, is it’s a completely different brand, company, database and business. We only sell the speakers we manage. We do not sell anybody else. We cannot. That’s our choice. It’s like an exclusive bureau. All our efforts and energy are only for those sixteen speakers that we have.

Those are speakers around the world, so you are calling on people around the world. Just because someone’s not in Australia, doesn’t mean you would manage them if they were successful enough and were a good fit. What I find fascinating is this survey you did for everything from a speaker starting over 100 of the speakers you surveyed. The criteria were they had to have been in the business for ten years and this question of, “What would you like to know about the business of speaking?” You have been able to curate a fascinating list of topics.

The one that I want to jump into is selling. A lot of people love speaking and hate selling themselves. They go, “Isn’t my video and testimonials enough? I have to convince an event planner or client. Can’t you do that?” You were like, “My job is to get you the chance to pitch yourself,” or tell them why. You have some real techniques here that I would love to know. We can talk about this concept of getting comfortable in selling ourselves.

For me, it starts with a mindset. Most people don’t want to be pushy. How do you help your team when it gets to that final three? Comparing it to acting from my days in LA, sometimes, it will be between 2 or 3 actors for the lead in a series and then they get to go in front of the network executives. Sometimes, it’s not even an audition. It’s an actual conversation. What is it that you see that the successful speakers are able to do? They could be talking about artificial intelligence or something not at all related to sales and yet, the successful ones have figured out a way to sell themselves.

There are two things that I want to talk about and break down. The first thing is it’s not all about you. I want to talk about that. The second thing I want to talk about is strategy. You put those two things together. Let me start with it’s not all about you. A lot of ways speakers can relate to what I’m talking about is that many of them, not all of them are because someone loved being on stage, as a way to overcome nerves, when they are on stage, had to realize, “It’s not all about me.” What am I here to do? I’m here to serve. Take it all off you and onto the audience, then not only did the nerves go away and you are more comfortable but you are a much better speaker.

[bctt tweet=”Be able to answer ‘Why You’ when you pitch yourself.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Without diving into that too much, take that into sales because it’s the same feeling. It’s the nervousness. It’s like, “Am I doing it right?” What is it all about? Me. “I don’t feel like doing it that way.” It’s all the I statements. What if you are worth it to serve your client? Let’s take it back to service. Many speakers love to be of service on stage. If I could talk to that part of your heart and say, “I know that when you are on stage, you truly want to be of service to that client. These are people you haven’t met yet. Start being of service to them now. Let’s think about them. What are their needs?” If you focus enough on them, it all goes away. Can you see how it leads into strategy?

Absolutely.

I’m a bureau owner and I work in bureaus for many years. Back to my training routes, whether they be speakers or even bureaus, what I feel one of the biggest misses that we have as bureau salespeople is that we think, feel, know and act like we are selling a 60-minute transaction. That is sad because you cannot be of service in a 60-minute transaction. If speakers could hear and know that I’m a bit kinesthetic, so I’m talking to people’s hearts a little. If they can take that in, you will never be scared about making sales again because you want to sit like that. You want to jump on a 60-minute transaction.

The amount of preparation that goes into a talk and interviewing some people and getting a sense of what’s important to them. If you offer some follow-up, all of that allows people to go, “You are not just in and out. This is a relationship.” The impact continues long after the talk is over. That alone puts you in a different set of people you are talking to.

John, that’s true impact. You need to meet their point of pain. You’ve got to do that if you are somebody who’s coming in for a 60-minute transaction and you are thinking about you being a salesperson and you are thinking about how do I make this sale? This is what I talked about. There were a lot of cold calls. I didn’t have a database, did I? This is in the olden days. Many years ago, I spent $200 on letterhead. Do you remember we used to type things on pieces of paper? This was before computers. Forget Zoom. I didn’t even have a computer. The idea was to start connections with people.

You think about when you are making a friend. You often start with, “Tell me about your family.” You and I had a lovely conversation about your gorgeous property before we started talking about business. We often start with those things. The same things happen in a corporate marketplace. If I met generally, what job do they have and who makes the decisions perhaps? “Tell me a bit about your event. You are going there. How exciting.” It’s more frivolous compared to what’s keeping you awake at night? We don’t ask that question explicitly. Implicitly, we are looking for what’s going on in that company? If you listen closely enough, for example, you will hear people who have staff afraid to go back to the office and corporations scared. How are we going to get them there? We have staff that is like, “I have proven I can do my job from home. Why do I ever have to go back?” There are all sorts of points. You mentioned AI before. People are afraid that their job is going to be done by a robot or whatever your topic is?

Standing Ovation: When speakers realize it’s not all about them and they have a strategy, they are successful.

It’s fascinating you brought that up, Leanne because I was talking to a healthcare medical regional VP and he said, “My job is to keep these highly skilled salespeople happy and loyal to the company. By not seeing them for over a year in person at annual meetings, we feel like that bond is slipping away. We are looking for solutions for how to bond virtually that we never needed before.” That creates a whole separate conversation beyond just what’s the top going to be.

I was saying to you before we come on here and I will share this with people as a positive, so coming back. I emceed in Melbourne one time and there are 450 people in the room. This is happening a lot here in Australia. None of us with masks or anything. That’s where we are at. John, for many people, it was their first time in a room with that many people. Even as an emcee, I had to come to it, not just about that one sheet.

Let’s acknowledge the elephant in the room.

We have to talk to the people and make them feel comfortable. I spent the first ten minutes talking to them about their past year and how they have had to adapt in business but I’ve got them to stand up and look around the room for a minute so that they could feel comfortable again. It’s different, John. You’ve got to take a minute when you are back in a boardroom with 500 people.

Even the networking thing, that’s a muscle we haven’t used in a while. The fight or flight response wants to kick in and go, “This is too much. I have to walk up and introduce myself to strangers? I haven’t had to do this in over a year.” You are spot-on, Leanne, about what is it that is happening that we address and keeps our messages from the stage, off stage, of selling ourselves and all of it is current.

Can I talk about a strategy for me that’s taking part?

[bctt tweet=”To have a true impact, you need to make your point of pain.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Please, yes.

First of all, it’s not all about me. We are focusing on them. We have made a true connection. We are able to then find out more of their pain because we are asking deeper questions, so we have made a deeper connection. That is a whole other episode that you could help them with, too, if they ask those questions. We can then start looking at the strategy. When do we know what their pain is, what is it? How is it the way that we were? It’s because it’s going to be in your topic area because they called you for a speech on your topic or expertise but what you want to do is you need to take that from a topic to expertise. Do you see the difference?

Yes.

At first, because they have been transactional to this thing, they use someone who speaks on a topic. We need to let them know that you are somebody who has that expertise. You are already going to be dropping seeds, even from when you take the inquiry. The questions that you ask, it will show that there is more that you can help them with and you can truly help them with what’s going on, not just do a talk about it. As you know in 45 to 60 minutes, you can help to change people’s attitudes and you can give them some tools to do that but you cannot give them the practice with the skillset in that timeframe.

That comes from half days, full days, long-term, advisory services in-house, etc. I will give you an example. I’m sure that many of the people that you talk to have, as a last resort, would negotiate a fee. I’m sure that’s something you have already talked about a lot before. The way that we talk about it in our bureau and certainly, in our management company because it is a general rule, that’s not what we do but we add a lot of value. Be strategic in the value that you add. I will give you an example. We have got lovely Hamilton Island here on the Great Barrier Reef where a lot of our conferences are held. If they take you to a place like that, where you can’t get out on the next day anyway, how about a strategy breakfast with the C-Suite the next morning?

This is what I talk about of going from being interesting to being irresistible and you have given us a great example of that. I remember when I was talking to Anthem insurance. It was a similar situation where I had to be there anyway for a while with the flights and things and I said, “What else is happening if I’m picked to give this talk in the morning kicking off the two days?” “At the end of the first day, we are going to have an improv session. These people aren’t salespeople. They are nurses and MBAs, yet they have to sell, so the audience is going to throw out objections and people are going to be on stage.” I said, “What if I stayed? I’m going to be there anyway. I will just stay and whisper in their ear if they get stuck in the improvisation. Something from my talk.” “That would be amazing. We never even thought to ask a speaker to do that.”

Standing Ovation: Some people don’t realize that speaking can be more than just a hobby business.

It became this highlight of the whole two days and then people would say, “Can you be my ear all the time? You were The Pitch Whisperer.” The whole thing took off and people said, “How long have you been in healthcare?” I was so immersed in their experience by that extra strategy of, “What can I do to go from being interesting to irresistible?” Sometimes, it’s proposing an idea like that breakfast the next morning with the C-Suite or playing with them in an improv situation where it takes some of the fear off and they don’t get stuck. Since improvisation is all about yes, and.

If you don’t know what to say and someone’s whispering in your ear to keep it going, that’s a home run for the planners, the clients and everybody in the audience. It all comes to life that way. I love what you are talking about. One of the things you also have here is marketing. There are six basics of marketing. Many of us know pricing, positioning, packaging and all that fun stuff but you have something that you think is the most important one that you call your seventh basic marketing principle. Would you give us a little hint of what that is?

The other six, as you say, you would have talked about a lot, which is your bio, testimony and all those things that people know of. I have been spending a lot of time with my speakers on video pitchers and quite honestly, a video pitch is what’s helping to bring businesses over the line when you break it down and you do it well. With my mastermind group, I have a couple of my staff from the management company come in, look at their video pitches, mark them and give them feedback on what’s working and what’s not working in them. When you do a video pitch, you always use the person’s name early. Otherwise, they are never going to know that this is made just for them. How many videos do we all have? We have made this once and we are using it 100 times. You use the name early so they know it’s just for them. If the pitch is by a bureau, you always use the bureau’s name and thank the bureau early. You want to do that as well because you will be giving it to the bureau. The bureau consultant will be looking at it before it passes on. It’s at the discretion whether they do or not. A lot of speakers assume that clients get to see everything that they send to a bureau.

I can tell you that they don’t. You want to make sure that it makes a bureau person look like a hero or otherwise, it may not get sent on. You make sure that you do the event information quickly. “I’m looking forward to coming to Hamilton Island on the seventh for your conference.” Get that all there. There are a couple of sentences on what is going to be in the content, which is the why you. They will get a feel of why you come to it differently and then most importantly, what are they going to take away afterward? What are your takeaways? It can be harder, sometimes, to go via a third party like a bureau to find the pain. It’s not just taking an inquiry from a bureau at face value. If you can, getting a little bit more information for the pitch keeps in mind the two things. It’s not about me and what is my strategy? How am I going to help them in the long-term?

This concept of being clear, concise and compelling, whether you are telling a story or creating a video pitch is the takeaway I’ve got from you describing that. It’s clear, “This is for you.” It’s concise. It’s not an hour-long thing. It’s compelling because it’s like, “Here are your takeaways. Here’s what’s in it for you.” When you have that as your checklist and things are filtered through those three Cs like any good story is, it’s great to declutter. You are helping people become memorable. That’s the power of working with someone like you and the storytelling aspect of it.

We all have to stand out through somewhat of a crowded field, whether there are lots of speakers on your topic or getting noticed by a bureau expert like you. I know that you have a lot of people constantly asking you about that. If there’s one thing that someone could do, let’s assume they are not famous, they are not Steve Wozniak and they are not a beginner but they have been doing it for a while. They’ve got some revenue that’s coming in. What is the thing that distinguishes it for you of whether or not you say, “I think we could book you?”

[bctt tweet=”Be strategic in the value that you add.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Do I have to choose one? It’s annoying to have to choose one, John.

Give us as many things that come to mind. What little things they could do? What are your favorite things or give us a story of something really creative that wowed you?

Many people here would know of Keppler Speakers Bureau and know Jim Keppler. When I started going to IASB, the International Association of Speakers Bureaus, many years ago, I asked him when I was thinking about having exclusives because his bureau is known for having great exclusives. I was looking at, “What is it when you sign an exclusive?” I was waiting for him to say big-name only or something and he talked more about seeing Simon Cowell’s The X Factor. We didn’t have that then but he talked about seeing that he is so attractive to somebody because I have taken speakers when I have seen them on stage and thought, “You are nowhere near where you need to be. Your future is bright. I need sunglasses watching you.” It’s that X-Factor that we look for.

That’s harder to explain to people. I wanted to talk about that one because that one’s important. The other thing that I look forward to is people who know and understand having a strategy. They are speaking business as a business. Some people don’t realize that it can be more than just a hobby business and they treat it that way because there’s something about their love of speaking that’s deep. They are still alive. It’s like, “Can I get paid for this? Don’t tell anybody.” There’s that level of holding their breath and it’s okay. Exhale, you deserve this. You deserve to be this happy on the planet. Many speakers love what they are doing so much that they cannot believe they are getting paid for it. Never mind the ridiculous money. It is ridiculous money that they get paid but adds value and have a strategy.

If I talk to somebody and I find that they have gone in for a speech and they are still there six months later or three years later, it’s the same thing when I’m looking for salespeople. If they are talking about 60 minutes’ transactions, it’s not that they say that but you can pick it up in the way that they speak. Whereas the difference for me, I’m in the business many years later, is that a lot of my sales ended up being $50,000 or $100,000. In a bureau, my biggest sale was $3 million in over three years. This is Australia where we’ve got a small population. It was a contest of 10,000 people. We ended up going through everybody. It was brilliant, but we have changed the face of the contest and get to see you get up and do a townhouse toast to the person that I bought into the contest. I did have a tear in my eye.

Why wouldn’t you? We have gone full circle to where we were opening with this conversation around how somebody gets comfortable at selling themselves when you have that outcome in mind. I remember once getting an email from a bureau saying, “Congratulations. They picked you over the other two speakers they interviewed. They liked your energy.” That’s the X-Factor that you described. At the end of the day, we think, “It’s my content, my book and video.” After I worked with the client, the event planner said, “I felt good after talking to you. I figured if it felt that good, so would hundreds of people that I’m having come to the event.” If we remember that, everything is energy and talk about in terms of The X Factor, chemistry, clicking and all that stuff.

Standing Ovation: Many speakers love what they’re doing so much that they cannot believe they’re getting paid for it. Never mind the ridiculous money. It is ridiculous money that they get paid, but add value and have a strategy.

Money is all energy. It allows us to realize that is what’s happening, then we come from a place of service. The strategy becomes, “How can I move the energy? How can this energy have an impact? Do they keep wanting to bring me back or have talked other divisions?” You then know you are on the right flow of it all. I would think that’s going to make you stand out whether it’s to a client or a bureau or any of the other things. Leanne, you offer so much to the industry and ultimately, the world with your impact and connections. How can people find out how to work with you? There are three. You have your training. If you don’t mind, give us each bucket and if there’s a URL for each one, fantastic so that people can say, “I want this. I want that. I know someone else who could use this.”

If you go to www.HouseOfO.com because I had to put all the brands under one brand. That’s why I have stayed O. You will find in there, Ovations, the Speaker Bureau. That’s very specific. There are ODE Speaker Management, which is the global management company and then Standing Ovations, which is where I coach speakers. I do that in small mastermind groups. I do everything like you think I would do. I don’t just do one-off 60-minute things even in my coaching. It’s like I’m not interested in so much in my bureau to just do one-offs. It’s a year-long journey. I started that in 2019 and the group I started with, I didn’t know there was such a thing but they said, “What’s next?” They just keep renewing with me. To warn you, if you do come to Standing Ovations, we will go on a wonderful journey together.

My favorite word because you are taking people on a journey much like a good story or a movie does. That’s what are the movies for. That’s what a piece of art does. It takes us on an emotional journey and you are showing people how to make those dreams come true in an impactful way. They deserve to be that happy. Thanks again. What a delight to get to connect with your energy. I can see why you are successful and continue to be. We look forward to cheering you on every step of the way.

Thanks for your time, John, and to everybody out there, keep fighting the good fight.

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Raise Your Game With Alan Stein Jr. 

Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments

12.05.21

The world tends only to see the wins and glorious moments in life. Many overlook the fact that behind all the success is the amount of work behind it, the blood, sweat, and tears shed leading towards that moment. In this episode, John Livesay is joined by the author of Raise Your Game, Alan Stein Jr. to share with us why we should not let outcomes determine our behavior and how the unseen hours we put in when no one’s looking determines our success. Having worked with amazing athletes, including Kobe Bryant, he then tells us some of the lessons he learned from the basketball court to the business world, such as preparing to do sales, focusing on being great where we are, and the difference between motivation and discipline. At the end of the day, success is not about the outcome but the preparation put into it. Join Alan in this conversation to find great nuggets of wisdom that will have you rethink the way you see success.

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Listen to the podcast here

Raise Your Game With Alan Stein Jr.

Our guest is Alan Stein Jr., the author of Raise Your Game. He’s worked with amazing athletes, including Kobe Bryant. He shares the lessons he learned from the basketball court to the business world, including don’t let outcomes determine your behavior, how the unseen hours that you put in when no one’s looking determines your success. His big advice about being a star right where you are, and how that led him to incredible success. Enjoy the episode.

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Our guest is Alan Stein Jr. He teaches proven strategies to improve organizational performance, create effective leadership, increased team cohesion and collaboration, and develop winning mindsets, rituals and routines. He’s a successful business owner and a veteran basketball performance coach. He spent fifteen years working with the highest performing athletes on the planet, including NBA superstars Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry and Kobe Bryant. In his corporate keynote talks and workshops, he reveals how to utilize the same approach in business that elite athletes use to perform at world-class level. He delivers practical lessons that can be implemented immediately. His clients have included everything from American Express, Pepsi, Starbucks, Penn State Football, and many more. The strategies from his book, Raise Your Game: High-Performance Secrets from the Best of the Best are implemented by corporate teams and sports teams around the world. Alan, welcome to the show.

I’m excited to be here. Thank you so much, John.

I’ve been a big fan of your work and your passion. I got to hear you speak at a virtual meeting. I thought I’m going to reach out because you and I love this passion for getting people to stretch themselves a little bit beyond who they are or what they think they can do. Let’s take it back a little bit to your own story of origin. You can go back to the first time you ever shot a basketball to wherever you want to start the story. Before you became such an expert in all of this and working with these athletes, what is your own little story?

[bctt tweet=”Don’t let outcomes determine your behavior.” username=”John_Livesay”]

The point of origin that is applicable is that basketball was my first love. It was my first identifiable passion. I fell in love with the game at 4 or 5 years old, several decades later, basketball is still a major pillar in my life. For that, I’m thankful that I’ve been able to build a life and make a living built around something that I enjoy and have a passion for. That stems from arguably the best piece of advice I ever received when I was young, which is find what you love, find what you’re good at, and then find where those two things intersect. For me, that’s always been around the game of basketball. Even now that I left the direct training space and do mostly corporate keynote speaking and workshops, it’s still centered on all of the themes, lessons, principles and strategies that I learned through the game. Most of the stories that I tell on stage or to a webcam are rooted in my basketball experience. Basketball is still a foundational pillar in my life.

For frame of reference, because everyone is always curious, how tall are you?

I’m 6’1”, which according to the average height of males in America puts me a little bit on the taller side, but it’s funny because I looked like an absolute shrimp in some of the pictures that I have because I’m usually standing next to someone that’s 6’8”, 6’9”, 7 feet tall. Even when I worked at the high school level, even though they were 15- and 16-year-old kids, many of them were 6’8”, 6’9”, 7 feet tall. When you see a team picture, it makes it look like I’m 5’4”.

Raise Your Game: High-Performance Secrets from the Best of the Best

If you’re built a certain way in basketball heights, I remember in gym class in high school, the guy goes, “You got muscular legs.” I go, “I’m a competitive swimmer.” He goes, “You should be on the football team with those legs.” I had the opportunity to meet Michael Phelps and everyone was like, “He’s a successful swimmer because he’s got a big lung capacity.” There’s so much more to that success in any career, whether it’s an athlete or a salesperson or whatever you’re doing, than just your physicality. I wanted to start there. Did you have anybody encourage you or discouraging you like, “I don’t know if you’re tall enough?” What was it about basketball versus other sports that you go, “This is for me?”

I was always on the taller end of kids in my class. I’m not freakishly tall, 6’1” is a hair above average. It’s not like I’m 6’10”. My main attraction to basketball funny enough was, and this is a little-known fact that most people don’t know about me, is I’m heavily introverted. I love solitude. I love alone individual time. That’s how I recharge my battery. That was what unconsciously attracted me to the game of basketball because it’s one of the only team sports that you can practice by yourself and still improve the major skillsets. As long as you have a ball in a hoop, you can work on your ball handling, you can work on your shooting. Whereas when you think of soccer or baseball or football, you need someone else there with you to throw the ball and to catch or to tackle or to do whatever it is that you’re going to do. It’s harder to improve those sports in solitude. I love that I could take a few hours on a Saturday, go down to the park, work on my game by myself in complete silence.

Back in the ‘80s and ‘90s, we have a little boom box with some hip-hop music playing. I could go with my team and be around others and contribute to the greater good. That was one of the early attractions. I have seen in my time since the pressure that people put on young people when they’re tall at an early age. They make the assumption, “You should be playing basketball, or you should be playing volleyball because you’re tall.” They don’t quite get that. I understand that’s helpful, but they have to have a passion for it, for this to come to fruition.

[bctt tweet=”Emotions inform not direct your life.” username=”John_Livesay”]

I love that inside story of your introversion allows you to be by yourself to recharge and still be part of a team and toggle back and forth. That’s why basketball resonated with you. That’s nothing to do with your height, which is I happily found that insight for people. A lot of people think, “Why did you pick that or why does that resonate with you?” Let’s talk about your book, Raise Your Game. You’ve got some secrets in here. How did you come up with the title? That’s always a fascinating question for me, because as a fellow author, I know it’s not the first thing that comes to top of mind. There are many things that are considered.

Before we do that, I want to take one quick step back and say that my introversion is also what drew me to keynote speaking. I get to spend so much time by myself rehearsing, writing, and working on my craft. People often make the mistake of thinking if you’re introverted, you’re not social, that you don’t like people, that you don’t like large groups. Nothing could be further from the truth. I love being on stage and I love being around people, but that’s what drains my battery. It’s solitude that allows me to recharge. That’s the definition of introversion versus extroversion.

Extroverts get their energy from other human beings. Whereas for me, when I do a 60-minute keynote onstage and then mingle with some folks after, I can’t wait to get back to my hotel room and be in full solitude because I am emotionally exhausted at that point. I’ve been able to embrace my introversion and know that if I can put in the individual time to fill my bucket, then I can be of more value and of more service when I step on stage. I took that same mindset that drew me to basketball. That’s one of the key things that drew me to keynote speaking as well.

Raise Your Game: If you do have tendencies of being introverted, that in no way, shape or form should limit your potential as a sales professional.

That’s helpful because a lot of our readers are entrepreneurs. That’s a lonely job. I don’t think people, unless you’ve done it, realize that speaking can be a lonely job. The joke is we speak for free. They pay us to travel. If you’re a salesperson like I was, you’re on the road, you’re in a hotel room, people don’t realize it. If you are recharged by being around your friends and family, and you’re on the road in a strange hotel in a strange city, then that drains you. If you’re someone like you, it recharges you. The things that are hard for people who are extroverts, being on the road, alone in an airport, and all that isolation of not having one to talk to, it drains them. For you, it recharges you. It’s the same thing with sales. It’s like, “You got to be outgoing to be in sales.” Maybe or maybe not. It depends on how you can frame it.

If you are naturally extroverted, you will gravitate to something like sales because you make that connection of, “Nothing would make me happier than meeting with eight clients or prospects a day and talking.” While that may be true, that doesn’t mean that if you’re naturally introverted, that you should have an aversion to sales. You can still be an incredible sales professional if you’re introverted. You have to know your lane. You have to know that, “I’ve got a sales call today at 4:00, or I’ve got a presentation this evening.” I need to be in solitude to prepare for those two events so that I can bring my best and that I can show up as my best self. For the readers, if you do have tendencies of being introverted, that in no way, shape or form should limit your potential as a sales professional.

Also, as an entrepreneur. Bill Gates and Zuckerberg are quite introverted person. They’ve figured out ways to deal with that and make that work for them. You’ve said something that stands out to me, which is the need for preparation. We know athletes do it, Broadway performers do it, movie stars don’t get in front of the camera without rehearsing. Yet I see many sales professionals that are like, “I’m just going to wing it.” Whether they’re pitching for funding or pitching to win a new client, this resistance to practicing is the same personality that doesn’t like to stop and ask for directions before GPS. What is that do you think that causes people to realize, “All these people need to practice, but I don’t?”

[bctt tweet=”Don’t play the comparison game.” username=”John_Livesay”]

In any work that I’ve done with sales organizations, that’s one of the chief recommendations I make. You need to develop some type of system for practice. Whether you want to call it rehearsal, role-playing, whatever you need to do, you need to get into reps. It is interesting that we make that assumption with sports. We make an assumption when we’re watching a movie. None of us think that when we’re watching a movie that the first time Al Pacino or Meryl Streep is saying those lines is when the camera is on. Of course not. They said those things hundreds of times in preparation so that when the lights go on, they can nail it. Sales professionals should be doing something of the same effect.

One of the concepts in the book is we talk about the unseen hours. It’s the hours that you put in when no one is watching. A basketball player is made during the unseen hours. Us as novice fans, we get to enjoy their greatness when the lights come on, and the cheerleaders start dancing, but their game was built in an empty gym, working on their game by themselves. It’s the same thing with sales professionals. If you can start to look at that sales call you have or that presentation you have, if you can look at that as your game, or you can look at that as showtime on Broadway, then you’ll do what you need to do to prepare and to anticipate, “What am I going to need to be able to do during that sales call? What are some of the potential objections they may have or excuses they may make? What are the most insightful questions that I can ask them to get to know them, and qualify them as a legitimate prospect, and make sure that what I’m selling is the right fit for them.” That’s another important key.

A lot of sales professionals want to lead with their features and their benefits and what makes them unique. That stuff is important. However, it’s way more important to show the customer or the prospect or the client, how much you care about them and how invested you are in what will solve their problem. You’re not worried about selling them anything. You’re worried about making sure that you understand what it is that they need. If what they need is what you sell, then the sale will take care of itself. You don’t have to force it. You don’t have to manipulate. You certainly don’t have to convince anyone. You simply have to make sure that they can see the alignment between what they need and what you have. Once you get to that point, then you can share some features and some benefits and your unique selling proposition. It’s way more important to go into it with asking insightful questions and getting to know them.

Raise Your Game: With sales professionals, if you get too hung up on the outcome and the sale, it’s going to erode your preparation and your mindset.

This concept of the unseen hours, even as a speaker, sometimes people come up to you and go, “You’re a natural.” I smile like you did because nobody wants to hear about the work, unless they’re a speaker and then you’re having a conversation about the draft. People want to think that you can do that because you’re a “natural.” They don’t realize how much time you’ve spent crafting that TEDx Talk or whatever it is, let alone the keynote.

There’s no question that a certain level of charisma might be innate. You and I may have been born with certain personality traits that make it more conducive for us to be speakers and to be on. I say this respectfully and politely because people say the same thing. It’s almost insulting when someone says, “You’re a natural.” I do appreciate the intended compliment, but there’s a lot of work that goes into this. Ray Allen is one of the all-time best shooters in the history of the NBA. He’s still the leader in three pointers made.

He used to say the same thing because people would tell him, “You are such a natural shooter.” He said, “Natural shooter? Do you have any idea how many baskets I’ve made in the unseen hours in a dark gym by myself? This is not natural.” He would acknowledge. Maybe he was blessed with above average hand-eye coordination or spatial awareness. He was on the taller end. He was around 6’6”. He wasn’t discounting that he had some advantages, but at the end of the day, the reason he’s one of the best shooters ever to play the game is because he put in the work and he honored preparation.

[bctt tweet=”Find what you love, find what you’re good at, and then find where those two things intersect.” username=”John_Livesay”]

It’s the same thing for speakers. Could guys like us get away with not preparing? We might be able to do okay if we go up there and wing it, but we won’t come anywhere close to being as impactful and as influential as we’re capable of if we do prepare. This is why you can’t play the comparison game in speaking or in sales. If you’re comparing yourself to others and you’re using that as your yardstick, you’re going to fall short. My only comparison is, “Did I do as well as I’m capable of? Did I turn over every stone in preparation to make sure that I could deliver a customized message for this client? Did I bring my A-game and show up as my best self?”

If the answer to that at the end of the day is yes, then I know that I honored that client, respected that client, and did the best that I was capable of. The hardest part about that is learning to detach yourself from the feedback. There have been times where I felt like I killed it on stage and got good feedback, but they weren’t rave reviews. There have been other times where I got off stage and thought like, “Today wasn’t my best day. I was a little off my game.” I get some of the best feedback that I’ve ever gotten. It’s so important to keep all of these things in perspective and have some balance with them.

A lot of people secretly suffer and struggle with the imposter syndrome sometimes. A lot of that comes from comparing ourselves. We say, “Why am I not more successful by this age or by this stage of my career?” The first time I learned this was when I was in high school competitively swimming. They lined us up in heats. There’s always this guy that was faster than I was. They measure your time to the thousands of a second when you touched the wall. They said, “You won.” I said, “How did that happen?” They go, “He turned his head when he took a breath to see if he was ahead or not, and you stayed focused on the wall.” That was my first life lesson of, “When I focused on my own progress, I win.” When I was in the world of fashion, luxury entertainment magazines like, “Vanity Fair and Style are having an Oscar party. What should we do?” I was like, “Not that.” When you watch the Tiger Woods documentary, all that pressure and the crowd cheering, when you’re in basketball, you have that and so much at stake. It’s the same thing with salespeople when they’ve got the big sale coming up. I’m sure you’ve trained some of these athletes on how to be focused and turn off the noise.

Raise Your Game: Discipline is so much more important than motivation because discipline will get you through times when you’re not feeling motivated.

We can use swimming as a perfect example when we play the comparison game. If we compare you to me in swimming, you come out on top by a fast margin. I don’t even know anything about you, but I know I’m not a great swimmer. However, if we compare you to Michael Phelps, he’ll more than likely come out on top. It’s all a frame of reference. Yet, in both instances, you are the exact same swimmer. Nothing changed other than who we compared you to. It’s same thing with going out to eat. Some people will say that the Outback is expensive and other people say, “No, Ruth’s Chris is expensive.” It doesn’t change how much either one of them are charging, all it changes is what you decide to compare it to.

One of the hardest parts, especially in sales, because sales is numbers driven. Most sales professionals have sales goals and they have quotas. They’re earning a commission on sales, but when you can learn to detach from the outcome and learn to love the work, the process, and the preparation, that’s when you take that next step to being an incredible sales professional. If we use basketball as an example, there have been times I’ve been part of a team that did not play well and still won the game. There have been times where the team played the best they were capable of and they still lost the game. It’s the same thing with swimming. All you needed to worry about was, did you swim the best race you were capable of? It doesn’t matter whether the guy next to you beat you or you beat him, all that matters is that you did your best.

With sales professionals, if you get too hung up on the outcome and the sale, it’s going to erode your preparation and your mindset. You need to love the work because there will be times where you don’t get the sale, but you did everything right. You prepared. You were thorough. You brought your best self and they simply didn’t think it was a good fit. There will be other times where you nail it in, and somebody gives you the biggest check you’ve seen all year. You can’t let outcomes dictate your behavior. You need to be process focused, preparation focused, and aim to perform at your best. If you perform at your best consistently, I’m a believer that those things will take care of themselves.

I’m not saying that getting the sale isn’t an important because it is important, but that can’t be the focal point. It’s the same thing in basketball. Winning is important, but if you focus on winning every possession and you focus on taking great shots and playing great defense, the wins will take care of themselves. When you put your head down, your goggles in the water, and you swim your best race, chances are winning takes care of itself. It’s the same thing with sales, do all of the things that you’re supposed to do, and the sale will naturally be a by-product of that. We don’t focus on the sale. We focus on the preparation and the process. The end result more times than not will be the sale.

[bctt tweet=”Be a star where you are, no matter what level. Be great where you are, be great where your feet are planted.” username=”John_Livesay”]

I love what you said, “Don’t let outcomes determine your behavior.” I talk about it in terms of get off the self-esteem rollercoaster. You only feel good about yourself if your numbers are up and bad about yourself if your numbers are down. You can go up and down that multiple times in a day even. Our identity is bigger than anyone’s outcome. When we get that in not just an intellectual level, but a gut level, then we certainly don’t say, “I missed that shot. Therefore, I’m a bad basketball player.” Kobe doesn’t think like that.

Where this is so important is we don’t control outcomes, but we have much more control over the process, the preparation, our attitude, and our efforts. Most of this comes back to the happiness and fulfillment you’ll derive by taking control. I don’t want to give my power away. You said it so insightfully and perfectly. If my happiness and my self-worth is based upon the decision that someone else makes, that is a slippery slope. I don’t ever want to go down that path. I want to say that I prepared. I showed up as my best self. I did everything that I could, and then whatever happens happens. Either way, I’m going to feel good about the work that I put in. With that being said, I don’t want people to think that I’m a robot and that I’m completely stoic.

These are difficult principles to live by. It’s not easy when you think you’re going to get a speaking engagement and you find out they went with someone else. I’m not pretending that this is easy to do, but this is something we should all be striving for, which is detaching from outcomes and learning to love the work and love the process. Make that your enjoyment. When you can get as much satisfaction out of preparing for a sales call as you do from landing the sale, you own your happiness. No one else can control you. With that said, it reminds me of an important lesson I learned that our emotions are designed to inform us. They’re not designed to direct us. That’s so important when, as you said so perfectly, we can go on this roller coaster of highs and lows.

Some days we can sell anything and some days, we can’t sell anything, but that shouldn’t dictate the way we show up in our behavior. Hopefully, on the heels of a global pandemic where many sales professionals have been challenged, it’s okay if you’re feeling disappointed or pessimistic, or you’re in a low mood. There’s nothing wrong with having those feelings, but you can’t let those feelings dictate the way you behave, the way you prepare, and the way you show up. That’s what being a professional is all about. If you’re frustrated with a prospect, and then you act on that frustration, and you lash out at them, now you’ve got a problem. If you’re frustrated at that prospect, and you find a way to have the emotional regulation and control to still treat them with respect and civility, now you are a professional.

[bctt tweet=”Do the best job you’re capable of where you are. That will open doors and give you new opportunities.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Let’s loop back to how did you come up with the title, Raise Your Game, because we all are playing our own game whether we’re athlete or not. What was it that you said, “That’s the title for me, Raise Your Game?”

You hit it perfectly, almost as if you were reading my mind. I wanted to take something that I knew came from my sports background, which is playing games, but that would resonate with folks in other areas of life, business is a game. I want to raise their parenting game. I want them to raise their game as a spouse or leaders in their community. I wanted to find something that had a sports connotation, but was applicable and would resonate to anyone.

How did you get to, not only become a speaker, but get to work with the Kobe Bryant’s of the world? There are a lot of people who have your background maybe, but you’ve taken it to another level like the triangle on your book. You got one and then they send you referrals or what even made you want to do it or think that you could do it?

This is another lesson that applies directly to sales. I wasn’t always great at this when I was younger, but I’m getting better at it now. The answer to that is be a star where you are. Whatever level you are, even if you’re the lowest ranking sales professional, be great where you are, be great where your feet are planted. Do the best job you’re capable of where you are. That will open doors and give you new opportunities. The reason I say that is I worked at two different high schools here in the Washington DC area. Most of my work has been with high school age players, but I poured into them and did the best job I could as a high school strength coach. That opened the eyes of some people at Nike, the Jordan Brand, and USA Basketball. They gave me invites to come work at their events with Stephen Curry, LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Steve Nash, and a whole host of players. That started, first and foremost, by focusing on, “Can I make the kids at my high school the best that they’re capable of, and then someone will take notice?”

[bctt tweet=”Folks are always focused on the next step that they don’t give the current step everything they’ve got.” username=”John_Livesay”]

A part of that, and this is an important part too, which also goes to sales, I’ve always been a relationship type guy. I’ve always valued relationships over about everything else. This wasn’t transactional of, “Can I make my high school players run faster and jump higher?” This is, “I truly care about them as human beings. I want to see them successful in life. I care about the coaches on the staff.” If you introduce me to somebody at Nike, I’m going to want to build a relationship with that person and find ways to add value to them, so the relationship, as well as the mindset of star where you are is what opened up the door.

That’s all any of us should be looking for, the opportunities and doors to open. Once you get in, clearly you need to be good at what you do, or they’re going to send you right back out that same door you walked in. Once I was able to work at Kobe Bryant Skills Academy, I’d like to believe I delivered at a high level, which is then what allowed me to work some other events, but that only came from focusing on and embracing the current role that I had instead of always having one foot out the door. I noticed that in a lot of professions, folks are always focused on the next step that they don’t give the current step everything they’ve got.

Whether you’re shooting a basketball or getting ready to do a race, and what I noticed with Michael Phelps, people forget he did not win gold, and yet he was able to let that go and get in the mindset of, “This is what I’m doing now.” Not let that loss of the gold, “I got a silver,” affect him for the next race. That’s what’s so challenging for many salespeople. “I lost a sale. Now I have to pretend like I’m in a good mood.” That resilience is what you’re showing and teaching people. I would be remiss if I let you go without asking the Kobe Bryant story. Talk about not comparing yourself to other people, but I have never had to swim against Michael Phelps or even being in the water with him, just at a party. You have a wonderful story of Kobe and even the timeframe that made me laugh of, “I’m going to get to work out with him.”

Kobe was an anomaly. The way he approached the game, and his now infamous mamba mindset is unlike anybody else that we’ve ever seen in sport. I would always have, and still to this day, have a lot of younger players that reach out to me and say, “I heard Kobe worked out three times a day for 2 or 3 hours at a clip. I want to be great. Should I do that also?” I say, “No, not necessarily.” Kobe had a work capacity and a mindset. I don’t know that we’ve ever seen anybody at that level. The goal is not to try to carbon copy what Kobe did. This would be something I’d tell young players, but it’s so applicable to sales professionals and to speakers. I’ve got a handful of speakers that do a remarkable job. They are some of the best people I’ve ever seen take the stage. I admire them and I respect them, but I’m not trying to copy them and I’m not trying to be them.

[bctt tweet=”Motivation is fleeting. Even the most motivated individuals don’t feel motivated all of the time.” username=”John_Livesay”]

They may have some traits that I’d like to emulate. I might be able to see you on stage, John, and go, “John has such a mastery of his content. He’s so captivating in his delivery that I would love to have a similar mastery of my content. I’d love to be able to deliver my stories with the same type of conviction.” That doesn’t mean that I’m trying to be you or that I’m trying to carbon copy you. It’s so important with anybody that we put up on a pedestal, that we look at some of their traits and try to emulate those traits, and figure out how we can take advantage of similar mindsets, but we don’t try to follow the script or the blueprint of somebody else.

We’ve heard some of these stories with Tom Brady. Tom Brady’s up at 5:00 in the morning watching 2 or 3 hours’ worth of film before the team comes in to practice. Once the team has done practicing, he stays after and watches more film. That doesn’t necessarily mean that if every quarterback did that, they would be as good as Tom Brady. Everybody’s got to find what makes them tick in their own recipe. That goes back to this comparison game. That’s why it’s such a slippery slope. If you think you have to do what everybody else is doing, that might not be what’s best for you.

There are many great takeaways, but the one that’s landing with me is be the star where you are and find your own rhythm, which allows you not to play the comparison game. That’s where the patience comes. Part of discipline is incredible patience of, “Why isn’t this happening faster? Why is it taking so long for my book to get published?” Whatever we can be impatient about. When we get in that zone of, “I’m at the right place at the right time doing the right thing. That’s all I can control. That’s all I have to worry or think about.” The anxiety and the stress level get so much lower and we do our best work. Is there any last thought you want to leave us with?

I’m so glad that you brought up discipline because motivation gets a tad bit overrated in this society. We’re all taught that we need to be these highly motivated people, and that everyone should be waking up at 4:00 in the morning, ready to hit the ground running. Motivation is fleeting. Even the most motivated of individuals don’t feel motivated all of the time. Discipline is so much more important than motivation because discipline will get you through times when you’re not feeling motivated. My goal is to perform at a high level consistently. My goal would be that you have no idea whether or not I was motivated to come on your show or not because it’s irrelevant.

Who cares whether or not I was motivated? All that matters is that I have the discipline and that I show up as my best self because I respect you, and because I respect your audience. I want to deliver as much value as I can. If you happened to schedule a show on a day where I wasn’t feeling motivated and I chose not to bring my best self, how is anyone going to attain any level of success or any type of reputation if that’s the case? Discipline is so important. I didn’t want you to think that I skirted your Kobe Bryant question. Arguably, the most important lesson that I got from watching Kobe workout at 4:00 in the morning during an off season, was that he has a strong appreciation for the fundamentals.

The line that he said to me, which changed my life forever was, “The reason I’m the best player in the world is because I never get bored with the basics.” I’m hoping that you and I collectively added tremendous value to your readers. If they can process that one nugget that “I’m going to focus on the basics and the fundamentals relentlessly during the unseen hours,” then you can become the best sales professional you’re capable of. Each reader needs to ask themselves, “What are my basics as a sales professional?” Preparation is a basic, active listening is a basic. Figure those things out and create a system to practice those things relentlessly, and you’ll become the Kobe Bryant of sales.

Your website is AlanSteinJr.com. The book is Raise Your Game in all areas of your life. Alan, thank you so much for hopping on, showing us how to be the best we can be. I loved all the secrets you shared. What a pleasure.

Thank you so much.

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Amazon Mastery With Shaahin Cheyene

Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments

05.05.21

The future of commerce is online and mastering online marketplaces is something that anyone with anything to sell dreams about. We do live in fortuitous times because that wish of yours might just come true with Amazon Mastery, a new online course created by Shaahin Cheyene, the world’s #1 Amazon Accelerator. Sales has been Shaahin’s life and passion since his teenage years, when he became known as the “King of the Thrill Pill Cult” for dominating the rave scene in the 90s with his legal drug brand, Herbal Ecstacy. Shaahin founded his latest company, Accelerated Intelligence in 2009, which became one of the first sellers on Amazon. He has since developed an absolute mastery of all the tricks that it takes to dominate the site. Listen to his interview with John Livesay to learn the most important things you need to have if you want to succeed in the world’s biggest eCommerce platform.

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Listen to the podcast here

Amazon Mastery With Shaahin Cheyene

My guest on the show is Shaahin Cheyene, who has a new book out and an online course about Amazon Mastery. We talk about how important it is to not only convert, and you need to speak Amazon’s language to do that, and also get in the top ranking. He said the keys to that are authority and social proof. He shows examples of finding out what your 20% effort is that gives you 80% of the results. Enjoy the episode.

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My guest is Shaahin Cheyene, who was born in Iran. He’s an award-winning entrepreneur, writer and filmmaker based in Los Angeles. He’s the CEO and Chairman of Accelerated Intelligence. Through Accelerated Intelligence and Amazon Marketing & Advertising Agency, he manages the selling of his products and helps other brand owners to scale their online sales, not just on Amazon, but other marketplaces like eBay, Shopify and Walmart. He shares his passion for Amazon through his Amazon course entitled Amazon Mastery, which I have had the privilege of taking. It is incredible and full of information. He also has a new book coming out that we’re also going to talk about, which has a very compelling title that we’ll ask him about to explain, which is Billion: How I Became the King of the Thrill Pill Cult. Shaahin, welcome to the show.

John, it’s great to be on.

I love asking my guests to tell me their story of origin. In your case, you can go back to your days in Iran. Tell us what’s in this book you’ve written called Billion: How I Became the King of the Thrill Pill Cult. That is part of your story of origin before you became an Amazon expert.

I was born in Iran, in Tehran. I grew up there until I was about five years old to a solid middle-class family of Persian Jews, then revolution happened in Iran. My family was highly motivated to move out of what became the Islamic Republic of Iran. We landed in the US where we became lower middle class to the beginnings of poor from the standpoint of the kids that I was going to school with in a little enclave here of Los Angeles called Brentwood. I grew up around kids who had summer homes, their parents had multiple cars and all types of luxuries. I didn’t eat out at a proper sit-down restaurant until I was twelve.

It was not something that we did. If I needed clothes, me and my brother would go down to my dad’s dry cleaners in Westwood. We would keep our eyes open for clothes the customers had left behind for a year or more. Sometimes we’d get lucky, but usually our clothes would be several sizes too big for us. It’s an ongoing joke with me and my brother because we would wait by the door and look for people coming in who had a cool look. We would hope secretly that they wouldn’t come back to pick up their clothes because we knew that’s what we’d be wearing the next season.

From there, I decided that I wanted to become an entrepreneur. I don’t know how, but school life was very tough growing up an Iranian in the United States during a time where there was extreme prejudice against people from Iran. This was all during the Iran-Contra and things started heating up at home. I decided I’m going to go out on my own and I was going to leave home. I left home right around fifteen and went about my way. I discovered a mentor somewhere in Venice Beach who mentored me and started out in the rave scene, throwing underground parties, breaking into warehouses, having someone hop the electrical pole to get power, bring it in several car speakers to make sound and doing all kinds of stuff like that.

Billion: How I Became the King of the Thrill Pill Cult

We’re running illegal rave parties in the early ‘90, Los Angeles rave scene. It led me to a discovery that the only people making money in the rave scene, including the DJs and the promoters were the people who were selling drugs. For them, the supply of the most popular drug at the time, ecstasy, which is what they call Molly now had run out. It had completely been wiped off the tables. They were unable to get it. There were all types of dangerous stuff being sold as ecstasy. When people are at parties, raves and clubs, and they’re having a good time, they’re with their friends, and they’re enjoying life, they don’t have time to do a chemical analysis of the pills being sold to them.

This was causing some turmoil. I thought to myself, “What if I could break-in to this niche? If I could create a legal and safe alternative that wouldn’t hurt people and that people could use as an alternative, I’d be doing very well.” Long story short, I formulated a product in a girlfriend’s bathtub at the time somewhere in West Hollywood. I started going to the clubs and figuring out a way to convince the drug dealers who were pedaling real drugs to sell my pills.

Let’s pause for a second there so people can get a real picture. The cover of your book has a picture of you in this era with long hair wearing this pink guru gown on this very psychedelic cool background. If they’re looking at your headshot of the handsome guy you are now, they may not even recognize it as the same person.

That is right. I was long haired, defiant to no end, rebellious teenager who happened to be running $1 billion company with 200 employees, and had zero history in business, zero experience. I was a high school dropout. I never completed ninth grade and flying by the seat of my pants. The funny thing was that I had a system at the time, which I called suicide margins. What that meant to me was that I would make more money to solve all problems. I knew that if a problem arose, it would be easier for me to make more money to throw at it at that time, because we were printing money with these pills, than to go through the long process of fixing problems, building systems, and doing all that. The one system I had in place is make so much money that if something comes up, you can throw money at it and solve it. If somebody steals product, no problem.

How did you convince those drug dealers to sell your “herbal ecstasy” which is 100% legal to create this whole smart drug movement?

It all started out with one moment in one rave where I showed up. It was a huge rave. I was nervous and shaking. I had a backpack full of goof-filled capsules because that’s all we had at that time. There were either balls or capsules. I hadn’t gotten to commercial production. I was packing the stuff myself in a basement, kitchen and bathroom of girlfriends at the time. I showed up at the club with a backpack full of pills that I had very carefully packed in little baggies with a little card inside with a picture of a butterfly and an E in it. They were out of drugs at this party. I walked up to the biggest drug dealer in there and I said, “You’re going to go to jail. There are undercovers here. I’ve got a way for you to get out of it.”

At first, he was very aggressive and standoffish. I said, “Sell my stuff.” He said, “What?” I said, “Sell my stuff.” He said, “Give me some and I’ll try it.” He tried it. He was enjoying life in that moment. He took the whole backpack full, sold it all within minutes, and then came back asking me for more, which I nervously had to decline because I didn’t have any. I’d have to run back to the girlfriend’s bathtub and continue to produce more. He got my number. I got a pager and more people came on. He brought on others and more and more people came on. It grew from one guy in one club to 100 to 1,000 to 10,000 guys to the point where we created $1 billion in revenue.

Amazon Mastery: If you want to achieve success, you have to be able to find the one thing that’s going to be the most fruitful for the effort that you’re putting out.

In my upcoming book, I tell the story where I’m sitting in my office and the news breaks to me that we broke the $1 billion mark in sales. I’m sitting there going through my books, talking to the people sitting there. I did not even know how much $1 billion was. You could have told me and I wouldn’t have known. They wanted me to be on one of these big talk shows. It was Montel Williams. I was nervous because this was pre-internet and I didn’t know what $1 billion was. I was like, “Is he going to ask me how much a billion is? I don’t know what a billion is. Is it British billion, American billion?” I’m looking through encyclopedias. I’m like, “What are we going to do?”

Someone’s like, “Listen, idiot, they’re not going to ask you how much a billion is. They probably already know, but the bigger problem is they’re going to try to ambush you.” We have this whole situation developed where I’m going on this national talk show. I knew that I was being ambushed. Meaning that they were going to juxtaposition me, the fifteen-year-old, wearing Teva sandals, sweatpants or medical scrubs because I thought those were comfortable. I didn’t want to think about dressing. I had two modes. I had medical scrubs and I had sweats. That’s all I would ever wear anywhere, all in one color.

I decided to do the show anyway because I knew that even though they were going to have old government people against me, they were going to try to do some big thing where they would confront me on the air and prove how wrong I was that I was going to capitalize on that. What I did was I printed up t-shirts with our 800-number spread across the top. Before the internet, there was this thing called 800-numbers. I got to explain this to all the Millennials.

Pager was originally for drug dealers, doctors, and then actors waiting for their agents to page them. Now you have a pager to promote these drugs.

They’re going to be googling what a pager is. I had my pager and I had these t-shirts with our 800-number emblazoned across the top of them. I had a team go out and hand them out to everybody in the studio audience before, and then we gave them sweaters to put over them so they wouldn’t get busted. We gave them free pills. It was like a big party outside when the producers came up, they did not understand what was going on.

To be clear, those pills work quickly. It’s not like you have to wait an hour to feel a difference.

It’s 15 to 45 minutes was very effective depending on your bodyweight and metabolism. I had people who it affected them within 5, 10 minutes. For some people, if your metabolism is a little slower, it might take longer. If you’ve got a lot of food in your belly, it might take longer. Somebody may have incentivized some of the people on that show to stand up and wear our t-shirt on the show. The show host who later turns out may or may not have been a little dyslexic and didn’t read on the show because he was unable to do so.

[bctt tweet=”What is your 20% effort that gives you 80% results?” username=”John_Livesay”]

He pretended like he would read, he would hold up a package and he would say what the producers told them to say or what was on the prompter. I didn’t realize that this was happening. When the show aired, our 800-number was on everything. We made hundreds of millions of dollars from the airing of that show and others because my 800-number was on my shirt. We had government people saying, “This product could be dangerous.” They had Concerned Moms of America and DARE. They’re like, “Don’t buy this. It could be dangerous. This could very well be dangerous.” What are people hearing? What do you think they’re hearing, John?

When you say don’t, your subconscious doesn’t hear it. They’re hearing, “Buy this.”

When they’re saying it’s dangerous, that translates to the mind of all these people that maybe it does work. The real controversy in people’s minds were, “If I’m going to drop $20 on this, is it going to work?” That was the real controversy. The controversy on the news was, is it dangerous or is it not? The fact is people are willing to take a very high degree of risk in order to have a good time.

The younger you are, the more tolerant you are. You feel immortal and maybe not worried about anything happening. It has been many years and now Accelerated Intelligence has not the same product, but other products that have all kinds of enhancements around memory. I want to take us to that journey a little bit so we can get to the Amazon stuff, but it’s a fascinating launch of a career. It also stuck and morphed into something called Accelerated Intelligence.

I wouldn’t say morphed. I would say I learned a lot of lessons along the way. When you are a teenager and making hundreds of millions of dollars leading off to creating over $1 billion in value, before your 21st birthday, you learn a lot. Since then I created a number of companies, many of which failed, a few succeeded, which brings me to where I am now. I’ve got three lines of business. One is we make and sell products on the Amazon platform and beyond. We’ve got 300 different products in health and wellness, tea and supplements. We’ve got Excelerol, which is a fantastic brain supplement.

We sell one called FOCUS+ which people love, but we make all types of products. In addition to that, we have an agency where we do that for Fortune 50s, Fortune 500s. We charge some unreasonable amount of money, and we’ve got probably more demand now than we do have time and supply for our service. Somewhere along the ways, we figured out how we could win using the Amazon algorithm to our advantage. It seems now especially in COVID times, that’s something everybody wants to do with their product. We get brands approaching us all the time for that.

Let’s talk about one of those brands because what I love most among many things about you, your persona, your passion, your intelligence and grit is this organic Matcha DNA. That’s one of your products. There are a lot of places that sell matcha green tea. People are aware of the benefits of it from immune system stuff. You figured out a way because this is what you do for everybody, how are we going to make our organic Matcha DNA show up in an Amazon search, so that when someone puts into Amazon green tea, yours is going to be one of the ones that comes up. Maybe walk us through that path as an explanation of how you help others find a product, get it to appear on the first page of Amazon results, and then what that does for people’s income and life.

Amazon Mastery: Sometimes, starting and fixing problems as you go is a better tactic than working out all the kinks to make the best possible thing you can put out.

If you want to achieve success, you have to be able to find the one thing that’s going to be the most fruitful for the effort that you’re putting out. There’s a great book by Gary Keller called The ONE Thing. I’m sure you’ve read that, where he explores that. Not only that, what you have to do is you have to do an analysis of all of your efforts. In that analysis, there’s another great book by a guy named Richard Koch, The 80/20 Principle, which is based on the Pareto Principle. This guy a long time ago figured out that 20% of our efforts bring about 80% of our results. What is your 20%? When we look at Amazon, we look at all the stuff that people do to sell products online. What’s that one thing that you can do that can put your brand, your product above all the others?

The important thing on Amazon above and beyond all other things is ranking and being able to get visibility, but that’s not the only thing. Once you have that ranking, you have that visibility, you have to be able to convert. You have to be able to get them to buy your product. We do that by being able speak the language of Amazon and that has to do with influence. Another great writer, a man named Dr. Cialdini, who you’ve had on this show.

He wrote a great book called Pre-Suasion.

Also, Influence, I’m honored to be sharing the same airwaves, but he talks about the key factors of influence. I’ll give you two, which is the 20% to the 80%, even when it breaks down to influence. That’s social proof and authority. Those two things with any product make a big difference when you’re selling on Amazon. In my course, I’ve got a lot of students now who learn from us. A lot of people come to us and they’re like, “We’d love to use your service.” I’m like, “We’re ridiculously expensive.” They’re like, “You’re right. We can’t afford you. Thanks.”

We have a course people can take and do it themselves. The course is pretty reasonable. It’s not for everybody, but for the right people, it could be a game changer. We teach them how to do what we do using influence, using storytelling, which you are the master of on the Amazon platform. Learning how to sell products and create this real estate where they have this recurring revenue stream that’s happening for them day after day, week after week, making money while they sleep. That’s what we teach.

We’re both such fans of Dr. Robert Cialdini and Influence. There are three steps in any process. There’s the attract, convert and deliver. Most people have some challenges on the first two steps, but once they get hired to deliver something, they’re pretty good at it. What is so great about you is you walk people through all three steps. If you happen to say, “I want to sell something, but we need to import it from China.” There might be some delivery hold ups or what have you, that would impact your business.

You have been through enough of these to know the warning signs so that people don’t get stuck in the delivery part. That’s such a key part of expectations around anything I buy on Amazon. It better be here at least by tomorrow, if not a drone delivering it within the hour. When we talk about this first concept of attract what you describe as ranking to show up, that in of itself is worth the price of your course. People spend thousands of dollars to have that same result in Google searches. You are the expert on that for Amazon, but it’s not enough to show up. You got to show up as your best self and your brand and the packaging. The conversion starts the minute that page downloads in my humble opinion.

The One Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Results

A lot of people feel like they lose the sale at the end of the sale when they ask someone to buy. In your case, it would be the click here. I’m saying most of those sales are lost if that packaging doesn’t match who I think of myself as. It may be the least expensive, but I’m going to buy something that appeals to me. Maybe we should talk a little bit about authority as it relates to packaging. Those two things are tied together. Do you agree?

I’m going to push back a little bit on that with you because I know that you are a master salesman. You are a master of pitch, one of the best in the world. With that, I see where you’re coming from wanting to always put excellence forward. I’ve known you for a couple of years now. I always see you bringing excellence to what you do. That’s admirable. With products, however, on the Amazon platform, and I’m only talking about Amazon and selling on Amazon, sometimes you have to be careful not to have perfection paralysis, which is something that a lot of people suffer from. This line of conversation, I’m so glad that you brought it up because it’s so important, especially in these days of everything being politically charged, COVID, and all this stuff happening. We tend to gravitate towards black and white. Things are not black and white. They are nuanced.

In the order of selling on the Amazon platform, there is a lot of nuance there. I get students who come to me who cannot launch a product because they are so tied up in excellence. I say, “It’s good to be excellent, but you also need to do what Seth Godin talks about. You need to ship. Your product is good enough for what it is. Ship and fix the problems as you go.” Sometimes that’s a tactic that’s better than working out all the kinks and making it excellent and the best possible thing you can put out. This is a principle that I teach in my book because when you are sleeping, your enemies are planning your demise.

Two things. One, we talked about a mutual friend, Jay Salmon’s great line that, “Failure is just feedback. You keep going until you get a zombie idea. It’s so great it won’t die,” which gets you out of that perfection paralysis. I teach people all the time, let go of perfectionism and think of yourself as a progressionist. Start celebrating progress so that you don’t wait to launch something. Looking at my own website and the speaking video I’ve created multiple times and keep enhancing it. From where it was to where it is now is night and day. If I didn’t start, it wouldn’t have ever started to evolve. I agree with you that don’t let perfectionism stop you from launching and testing something.

If we take a look at the authority that organic Matcha DNA has and the social proof that you have from Dr. Eric Wood, who you were nice enough to introduce me to, that’s an example. It’s got authority plus social proof and great packaging. That all combines to tell this story. We’ve been able to bring those two things to life a little bit, but taking an example of when you look at this item. There are a lot of things you could open with. I tell people the same thing is true of a recipe, a job interview, when they describe what they’re looking for, and when you’re promoting details of the product. Put the most compelling thing upfront. Don’t bury the lead as they say in journalism. A lot of people could say, “I’m a left-brain person. I’m going to talk about how lab tested for lead this is.”

You lead with delicious and nutritious. That’s so smart because matcha green tea has a reputation for not exactly tasting very good. Sometimes it can be a little bitter for some people. The fact that you opened with that, pulls us into that story. We keep reading about how it’s certified, the doctor, and the way that it’s packaged. Here’s what I do in storytelling. When I give a fact or feature about something, I encourage people to say this phrase, “What that means to you is.” If we’re talking about something being certified BPA free packaging, and you’re the only one that does that, what that means to people is, then I’ll let you fill in the blank there.

It’s healthy.

[bctt tweet=”To sell on Amazon, you have to learn the Amazon language to convert customers. ” username=”John_Livesay”]

If you’re buying something organic, but it has a BPA in it, you’re taking away from it. That’s your unique selling point, but you lead with delicious and nutritious. When you’re talking about the nuances that are in your course, this is what we’re talking about?

Not every approach is right for everybody. What I’m hearing from you is that you want to lead with the one thing that your audience or your product avatar, whoever is buying your product wants to hear the most, the lead point of influence. That makes perfect sense to me.

Buy emotionally and then back it up with logic. If you’re putting the description of your item and logic at the top, they may not read down to the emotional hook first.

It depends on the product. This is the nuances that we’re talking about. You might have coat hangers and all coat hangers are the same. Your proposition there might be, “You get five more with us,” and then you would lead with that. It could be that, “We’re the low-price leader. We’re the same as all the other guys, but we’re $1 cheaper. Save that dollar.” It’s whatever that influencing factor is that will lead them to make a buying decision. It’s going to be different. For every product. I’m 100% on board with that.

Since you’ve been through my storytelling format, let’s leave everybody with an actual case story so that they can see themselves in the story, and want to go on the journey with you of becoming a master of Amazon. If you have a client in mind that you can tell a case story about, we’ll start with the exposition, their name, maybe the first name for anonymity purposes, where they live or approximately how old they are. Paint that picture a little bit for us if you have a case story in mind.

We don’t believe in anonymity here. All of my students, once they come on board, they know they’re on board. I will tell you this story. Me and my wife decided to have a kid several years ago. They grow up fast. My wife was working for the United Nations under Kofi Annan during Kofi Annan’s reign at the United Nations. She was a big-time publicist working for the UN and in government positions. Directly under Kofi Annan, who was her boss, was the head of the United Nations. We decided to have a kid and she said, “There’s no way I’m going to be able to do that high-level international politics work.” She came home. We had the baby. During that whole time, she was like, “I got to do something. I can’t just be a mom. I’d like to do something that brings in some money.”

By osmosis, she was watching me help clients and students, and mentor people. She just listened in and was like, “Honey, I think I can start an Amazon company.” I said, “You can do it. I’ll help you with whatever time you have.” She figured out, “I’ve got two hours a day when the kid’s sleeping or at the babysitter. I can do it.” She launched a company selling greeting cards and girly things that I don’t understand, recipe tips and floral flowery things that I have very little connection to. I would never think that somebody would need a recipe tin in this day and age. When she told me, “They don’t have an iPhone. What’s wrong? Why do they need a recipe tip?”

The 80/20 Principle: The Secret to Achieving More with Less

She is now doing close to $500,000 a year in sales working about four hours a week from home. She’s doing it by selling these products on Amazon. She expanded out to Etsy using our algorithms and the stuff that we teach. She sells on eBay. Day after day, we’re on vacation. We’re in Tulum sitting on the beach. She’s got her phones dinging with orders. She gets that tone and she loves it. We joke around about that and she’s adding products all the time. It’s amazing because she gets an opportunity to be a mom, to be a wife, to hang out with our family and friends and do that, and still bring in that revenue. That’s one of the amazing opportunities that Amazon has been affording its sellers and why it’s such an important company. We take that money and we turn it into other products and cashflow producing real estate.

Let me break that down for people to learn how to tell stories as well as you did. What is your wife’s name?

Her name is Matisse.

Several years ago, she became a new mom and we know that she had a very high-powered job before. The problem was she didn’t want to just be a mom and yet she only had two hours in a day as a full-time mom to juggle all this. We have a pretty good picture and a lot of women can relate to this. What I find fascinating about that story is even after your child got older, she could have decided to go back to work after they started school, she realized that the lifestyle and the freedom and the money is probably even better than she had when she was working for somebody that was such a high demand job.

We have the exposition. We know how long ago. We know the problem and then we go to the solution, which is an unexpected solution of something. The way you told that was like, “I would never think anybody needs it, but we have a way of testing it, and sure enough, it proved out to be something.” You then give us the solution of $500 million in eight years, four hours a week. You’re like, “That sounds like something I’d like to learn how to do.” The resolution is what brings that story home. Now we’re visioning you on the beach with your wife and son, and everyone’s happy. She’s feeling fulfilled, not just as a mom and a wife, but also as an entrepreneur and contributing to the family.

This is so important in storytelling. The money is going back into the business to launch other products and buy income real estate. We’re creating a legacy and that’s tugging at the heartstrings because a lot of people want to leave a legacy for their children and being on the planet, whether you have kids or not. I don’t know if you consciously did that, but it was valuable for people to hear how to tell a good case story in a way that is intriguing and will promote people to go check out what you’re offering on your course, but also at the same time, learn how to become a master storyteller in a new way. We’re doing two things at once.

I love how you broke that down and that’s amazing. How would you improve that?

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion (Robert B. Cialdini)

Mention her name because it’s more specific, “My wife” and then give her name, and then it will make us do the math in our head. Let us know that eight years ago when you decided to have a child, those little details pull us into a picture in a stronger way. Maybe give a little bit more of a description of maybe a problem she had along the way, and why people need your course in order to make this successful. The biggest mistake people make is they don’t test or they spend too much money or they don’t know the algorithm or they don’t speak the Amazon language. Give us some sense of what she started to do that you helped her not do before she had that success.

We’re on the journey a little bit to go from you have an idea for a product. We don’t know where she gets it from. We don’t know how she tested it. The more we see that there were some challenges. Remember in this case, you’re the Sherpa helping her climb Mount Everest of launching a new product to make money. It’s what we could add into that story to make it even more compelling. As it is, it’s intriguing enough that people are going to go, “I at least want to go to the website.” What’s the best website for people to go to find out more about you as a speaker, and to find out about your book and the course?

I’m going to do a couple of things. One, I’m going to give my email address and this will be my direct email where people could get ahold of me and I will get my website. The website is www.ShaahinCheyenne.com. If anybody’s interested in succeeding on Amazon, reach out to me with an email and that email is [email protected]. I will get back to you. You can also try [email protected].

Shaahin, thank you so much for taking us on this amazing journey of the first 40-something years of your life. I can’t wait to see what the next 40-something is going to bring and the impact it’ll have on the world.

Thank you so much for having me on, John. I’m honored to be on your show.

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