Evolve Your Success With Samuel Adeyinka
Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments
Personal development can affect, boost, and evolve your success to any aspect of your life. It is something one should focus on because you can have the opportunity to make a difference. When he was young, Samuel Adeyinka wanted to be a physician but realized that he could do other things related to medicine. That led him to pursue a career in medical sales. He experienced a lot of setbacks and challenges, which enabled him to give importance to personal development. Now, Samuel started his podcast to let people hear and have more information about the medical sales industry. Join him in this episode as he shares more about his inspiring journey to success.
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Listen to the podcast here
Evolve Your Success With Samuel Adeyinka
Our guest is Samuel Adeyinka, who after graduating from the University of California in Riverside with a Bachelor of Science Degree in Biology, started his medical sales career. Over the next several years, he worked for a variety of biotech and pharmaceutical companies. He then went on to work in various roles, including medical sales development trainer, International Coaching Federation, and a certified coach. He has now started his podcast and Evolve Your Success, which is an organization that delivers digital marketing strategy and training programs to corporations and individuals.
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Welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me. I’m glad to be here.
Let’s talk about your own story of origin. Did you know from a young age that you wanted to get into medical sales, or how did that road start for you? Do you have some great Biology teachers in high school or someone in your family?
I think everyone can say this. When it comes to medical sales, you did not know at a young age. This was new to a lot of us, probably for the last several years. I wanted to be a physician when I was younger. I was all about bones rise. I memorized every bone at a young age. I used to go around telling people what bones they had. At least I identify that all the time.
I want to be a physician. I thought I wanted that. That’s what led me to UC Riverside. I enrolled in the Biomed program. I got into that program. In that program, you got to spend some time with some physicians. I got to get a couple of mentors and I got to see what goes on at hospitals. I realized that, as much as I like this field, I want to look into other things related to it. I was not sure I wanted to practice medicine with patients.
I said, “Let me look into something else.” I spent some time working in the lab. Through that experience, I learned about this industry called Medical Sales. I worked with a PhD there, he was working on a diuretic, and he would say, “Sammy, you have a great personality. You understand the medicine. I see you have a big interest in the business. You should look into what manufacturers do for drugs and devices. Check it out and see if you like it.”
[bctt tweet=”Be a resource to your client. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
I looked into that. I looked into high-performance liquid chromatography devices and some pharmaceutical companies. With the pharmaceutical companies, I got my first role, moved out to the desert, and loved it. It was an awesome experience. I performed very well. Right going into it my first year, I had at a time in my life, loving what I was doing, and the rest is history.
When do you say desert, is it Phoenix or Palm Springs?
The desert is in the desert of California. Palm Springs, Palm Desert, Indio, those were my stomping grounds, and that is where I originated. That introduced me to the field.
A lot of people who understand science and like to study science are known as a little bit of introverts perhaps. They don’t like to even think of rejection personally, not the personality at all that sales require. When you do find a hybrid of someone who understands science and willing to put themselves out there in a sales environment, it is a magical find.
Usually, there are a lot of personalities like sales. They don’t know the science. I’m sure that combination was, in fact, a huge success. I’m fascinated to see how somebody did suggest it to you. It is amazing how one person in our life can be a major character in our own story of, “Had I not thought about that, I would never have even explored it. I didn’t know it existed.”
When you find something that fits, it is like, “This is what I meant to do.” It is not you are forcing yourself to do it, hate it, and find it awkward or whatever. Let’s talk about it because a lot of people think of pharmaceutical sales. Don’t you have to be a model to do that job because everyone is attractive? It’s crazy. The impressions that people have of the glamour of that job because it is the smartest, the best, and the most attractive, it’s like getting into Harvard or something.
Everyone has this perception that it is a difficult field to get into. You have now taken your expertise in doing it and helping people get into it, which we will talk about for sure later, but I want to get your impressions of it. Were you surprised at how competitive or challenging it was to get into when you first started?
Evolve Your Success: No matter what level of success you’ve reached in your life, you can always evolve it to the next level of success.
I’m going to be honest with you. I wasn’t even thinking about that. It’s funny. I didn’t even realize what I was getting into. When I first started, I was trying to develop my sales acumen. I had never been in sales before. I was working in the lab, and it was a high-performance liquid chromatography. We were studying these graphs and preparing liquid chromatography while running the experiments for this diuretic on live testing. That was what I knew and everything I studied in school, which was Biology.
When it came to sales, I didn’t know. I thought I needed to go develop my sales skills. I looked into T-Mobile, and there was a sales position there. A friend of mine said, “These guys teach you how to sell, you make good money, and they can help you with your first career move.” At the same time, I learned about this pharmaceutical opportunity. There was a company that wanted to work with me and I wanted to work there.
I said, “Do I develop my sales acumen at T-Mobile or even out here at a pharmaceutical company?” When anybody hears this, they’re like, “That’s an obvious choice.” At that time, it was not that obvious to me. I went ahead and went into it. I was excited to be in a role that offered that, doing things, selling, being a part of the business with them, and that excited me. Even before that role, I had this little nutraceutical company where I worked with a few providers. We were trying to have this diet nutraceutical product that we were trying to sell, market, and get out there.
It seemed like a sensible position to take on it. I felt I would learn more about what I was doing and get experienced in this new industry. I was not thinking about the challenge of getting in. Honestly, this was several years ago. It was competitive back then, but it was also not as well known. Now everybody knows about medical sales, medical device sales reps, and pharmaceutical sales reps. The average person knows what a drug rep or a medical device rep does. Now all these people want to get into it, and ever since COVID hit, even more so. It has become this very competitive and aggressive industry where you got to be a certain person and put in the work to get a foot in the door.
[bctt tweet=”Be someone your client can rely on.” username=”John_Livesay”]
The need for companies to train people has changed. When you and I were getting into sales, I got into high tech sales and they would put us through a training program, not only on the products but on the actual selling. I remember being videotaped and you should be giving someone your business card within many seconds of meeting them, in case they forget your name.
All those little tips that you don’t think about, emotional intelligence or social skills, especially if you are selling something expensive, there are a lot of people that get involved in the decision, and you are not going to walk out with a yes. You have to call on, in my case, financial people for leasing, a multimillion-dollar piece of equipment, or the tech people had to speak to the tech people and solve a problem.
It was a lot of training that was great because once you have an understanding of where things are in the pipeline, as well as where somebody is in their buying decision, you are able to make projections on a much more accurate basis. Without all that experience with somebody guiding you, you are making it up as you go along.
We have seen, without the proper training, how frustrating it can be for someone who does not have that training. How did you come up with the name of Evolve Your Success, which you’ve created now a full-service media and training company for both companies and individuals? I love it because it assumes someone’s already got a level of access, and you’re helping them evolve it.
That has always been important to me. No matter what level of success you have reached in your life, you can always evolve it to the next level of success, and human nature initiates that. If the money is great, you want to work on a personal relationship. If the relationship is great, you want to work on the finances. If all these different parts are great, you want to work on the family.
There is always an aspect of your life that you want to improve, you are either going to step toward that on your own, or something is going to pull you into wanting to develop it. That’s something that I’ve recognized pretty early on in my career. One thing that I loved was personal development. I became a fan of that early on because I had my own personal setbacks that let me see.
There is a way people can experience a personal setback and still get back to performing at a high level. I didn’t understand what that meant. I didn’t know what that meant until I started looking into the work of what personal coaches and personal development coaches do. That’s when I got to learn that no matter what you’re experiencing in life, whether it be a divorce, death, job loss, or whatever’s happening.
There’s a way where you can recalibrate, reevaluate yourself and develop from that place and evolve to even greater success than you have ever experienced. Me going through that developed a passion for me wanting to do that with my own career and help people do it as well. Several years ago, I worked with some personal development companies. I got to see what they do and how they work with people. It was completely inspiring to me. I said, “No matter what I do in this life, I have to remain connected to this work.” I started working with sales reps in all kinds of different industries.
This was passion coaching where I can help someone say, “Let’s look at what you are doing. Let’s look at your opportunities, and let’s help you ramp up your sales.” Honestly, what often happens is we end up working on their personal life. Not directly, but to show up a certain way professionally, you got to have certain things in your pocket personally. That is what would always come out when working with all these people.
Evolve Your Success: Whatever’s happening, there’s a way where you can really recalibrate, reevaluate yourself and develop from that place and evolve to even greater success.
This became a habit. What I noticed through that is a lot of these people also want it to be in the medical sales industry. I’m like, “You have all these people that want to improve their sales, their careers, and realize the value of developing personally. It carried over professionally. You have all these people that want to get into the medical sales space.” I said, “There should be something out there that gives them the opportunity to do so.” That is where Evolve Your Success was birthed, we started helping people create those opportunities, and we have been doing that ever since.
As a story keynote speaker, what I have found is how important it is that we are resilient and how fast we get back up after we get rejected, lose a job or a loved one, divorce, or whatever it is. They were all going to have experiences like that knocked us down. The trick is, how fast do we get back up. A lot of people shake it off fairly quickly, and then you see people two weeks, sometimes, even two months still talking about it. You are like, “You are not in the right mindset to move on. That’s why you’re in a slump.”
The other thing I love about what you do that I’ve noticed myself was when I got hired by a healthcare med-tech company, they wanted a sales keynote speaker to come in and teach their people how to tell stories. One of them had reached out to me during the interview process on LinkedIn. I liked and commented on a couple of his posts. He became my inside salesperson because he was trying to get his team to like and comment on doctors’ posts on LinkedIn.
The fact that I did it, he said, “I knew you were the person that would not try to squeeze that concept in, but you were doing it to sell yourself. I knew that wasn’t a good fit for our company.” The fact that you have used selling based on the science of social media to help people connect with people is important whether you’re selling yourself as we do as speakers or you’re in the medical tech world. A lot of them think, “I have to use social media to develop relationships. I’m going to keep hammering away like everybody else and send a bunch of emails going, can I have an appointment?” Tell us about what you’re doing and what makes your experience unique in this science in social media?
[bctt tweet=”There’s always an aspect of your life that you want to improve. You’re either going to step towards that on your own, or something’s going to pull you into wanting to develop it.” username=”John_Livesay”]
It’s the age we live in right now. Right now, we live in the age of social proof. Any influencers, celebrities, anybody you know the first name of that you don’t directly know, you can probably go online and find some social proof about that person. Anybody you know, you can go online and find some social proof about that person.
In this day and age, it is important to build a brand around yourself because the opportunities to provide value for people are endless. When it comes to social media or online technology, healthcare is the last space to realize the value, and healthcare has finally said, “There is a lot of value here to develop a brand for myself.” Surgeons and specialty providers are realizing that.
If I build a brand on TikTok, Instagram or LinkedIn, I am going to get more patients and get noticed. The good work that I’m putting out there in the world is going to be seen. Whether it’s intentional or not, there is going to be a level of credibility to what I do that people will believe in before they meet me. That applies to everyone, and everyone has the opportunity to do that. It makes you more marketable in the marketplace. If you work for a company and you’re ready to take your skillset to a different level, other companies can easily see the good work you’ve done at that organization and say, “Come work for us. You’re doing excellent.” Even within your own organization.
A lot of times, you’re doing all this good work in your role, and outside of your manager, the leadership has no idea all of the good work you’re doing well, but now you have the opportunity to let that be seen with your brand. The people within your organization are saying, “I didn’t know you were working on that. We want to consider you for this role over here. Let’s have a conversation.” There are so many opportunities.
Personal branding is very important. It’s more important it has ever been. I believe that we’re going to continue to go in that direction. I wanted to help in that transition. My whole thing is about developing other people. That’s what I’m big on. In every role that I’ve had, I’ve tried to focus on doing that, providing value for the customers and colleagues. Anybody I’m working with, I want to train them and help them reach their highest potential. Social branding is a great way to do that as well.
You offer this as a service. You help people optimize their profile, which people don’t even think about how important that is. They go, “I only need to be on LinkedIn if I’m looking for another job.” Wrong. You need to brand yourself on LinkedIn, which could even help you get a promotion. You take that another step further, which is, “Now we’ve got your branding done, but let’s get you to be perceived as a thought leader.” Maybe create some good content.
Think about it this way. You’re someone that understands a lot about your product or service. Let’s be honest. A good sales professional, he or she, understands their disease state, condition, and problem that their customers have better than anyone, even better than their customers. Let’s talk about it. You would have a doctor and he says, “I went to med school. I know more than you.”
It is granted, but I spent all this time, my whole livelihood is built on me, understanding this very specific detail of your breadth of knowledge to help you be even better and provide better quality for your patients. There’s got to be something there. On top of that, I spent all this time talking to your peers that do things differently than you do to give insight on how you practice what you do.
Evolve Your Success: In this day and age, it’s important to build a brand around yourself because the opportunities to provide value for people are endless.
I have friends that are providers, and a lot of them say, “A good representative is someone that I can rely on. It’s someone that I can look to them and depend on their knowledge to help me show up better for my patients.” If you are doing that, why not be seen by the right provider so that they can tap on you to be a resource to them. That is where social branding or being out there also does. It gives your customers another way for them to know that you are this person that can give them all this value and potentially lead to an in-person meeting. You become their real customer, doing business, and they are happy about it.
I talk to people all the time that we have worked with that say, “I met this account through LinkedIn. They saw what I posted about so-and-so and they contacted me. Now we were doing business, and their patients are doing better.” That’s awesome. That’s the beauty of what is happening in this day and age. That is something that I like being a part of.
I was interviewing an optometrist for an upcoming talk I’m giving to an eye care company. He said, “The reps used to be able to bring lunch in, and we would have lunch. They could present and pitch. Now they have to catch us between patients. We give them ten minutes.” Everyone is saying the same thing, “Our products are the best. Here are all our stats,” and then it is forgotten.
He goes, “I’m looking for a sales rep that I can rely on, that’s going to bring their expertise.” They’re looking at hundreds of other optometrist offices, and maybe they see a best practice going on there, or maybe I’m short-staffed. They know someone that is looking for a job. When those reps do more than give me stats, I want to do business with them. Most reps don’t think about that. They think, “My job is to pitch you what my knowledge.” That’s not it. That’s why I’m like, “You need to be a consultant and tell stories of a patient using your product, not just the stats, because we know people forget the information.”
You teach storytelling how to communicate your value to a provider. At the end of the day, what I’m all about is being a resource to your customers. When your customer can say, “When I have an issue and it comes to this space, I want to call on John. John will know how to help me in some way, shape, or form.” Your job is to be a resource to him and utilize your product as you do. That is the opportunity that every sales rep can take advantage of and truly be valued in the space that they’re working in.
Your show is called The Medical Sales Podcast. Let’s talk about picking a niche. I love it that you are interviewing all these people, and I was fortunate enough to be one of them that has expertise in this. One of the things you say here is you’ll laugh, you’ll learn, and you’ll be inspired. We need to be like that in person as well. We can’t be a robot putting out information.
[bctt tweet=”We live in the age of social proof.” username=”John_Livesay”]
There is a relationship. You are a person talking to another person, and people want to not only be informed but inspired. I maybe even entertained a little bit. That is a part that people get so focused on, “I’m only myself when I’m at home, and I’m a whole different person at work.” What you are saying that I love is, “No, when you have integrated it all together, you show up.” That is what makes you stand out in the hiring and the selling process.
One of the goals with the Medical Sales Podcast was there is this whole world that everybody hears about. The medical sales world, pharmaceutical sales, biotech sales, medical device sales, medical equipment sales, and I’ve heard patients say, “You drug reps come in, and you take up the doctor’s time.” No one understands what is going on outside of the people doing it.
I said, “There should be a resource anyone can tap into and find out not what the industry is about, the good that’s being done, and the value that every sales rep puts into medicine, but the lives these people are living, doing, care about, moves them, inspires them, and they are beautiful stories.” You were a guest, John. You have heard the episodes. You got some fascinating people doing some amazing things.
When you find that out, you will say, “Thank God they are in this space, and they’re committed to wanting to improve the quality of life through the patient and helping their providers do the best work their providers know how to do.” That’s a beautiful thing and that’s something that should be known by everyone.
I love how you evolved your career, and now you are the expert in getting other people to live the dream that you were living, and you offer many multiple ways to work with you, whether it’s branding on LinkedIn, tips on a podcast or getting coaching. What thought or quote do you have for us about life in general or medical staff?
One thing that we can all take home is no matter where you are, there is a place you can evolve to. We are in the age where if there’s something out there that you want, there’s an opportunity to go for it. You should not feel limited in this day and age. If you’re someone that’s saying, “I want to be in medical sales. I want to be the best medical sales rep ever. This year I want to be number one.” There is a way to make that happen, and you can make that happen. Nothing should make you think any differently.
When it comes to medical sales specifically, it’s a great field, and if anyone is interested, they should look into it and the beautiful careers that can recreate out of it. At the end of the day, you’re doing great work because it’s all geared to the patient. That’s the most important thing. The patient’s quality of life, regardless of what it is you’re selling. If it’s in medical sales, it’s geared to helping a patient live a better quality of life. If that’s what you’re about, that’s a field you should look into.
The best way to find you is EvolveYourSuccess.com. Samuel, thanks for doing what you do in the world. I can’t think of a number of people you have impacted in the ripple effect. That must make you feel good. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us and your stories.
Thanks for having me, John.
Important Links
- International Coaching Federation
- Evolve Your Success
- The Medical Sales Podcast
- Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course
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Accessing Your Massive Untapped Potential With Lynn Thomas
Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments
Accessing untapped potential is difficult because you don’t know what you’re capable of. The only way to find out is by challenging yourself. Lynn Thomas, CEO of Thomas Consulting, Inc., joins John Livesay to discuss how you can uncover areas for growth and development. She started as a tax attorney, but that did not stop her from transitioning careers and exploring opportunities, finding what truly works for her. She highlights the importance of emotional intelligence in facilitating your growth to becoming your peak self. The possibilities are endless, and it’s up to you to take the proactive step of coming out of your comfort zone. Find out how you can do that and other advice on dealing with rejection and employee retention.
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Listen to the podcast here
Accessing Your Massive Untapped Potential With Lynn Thomas
Our guest is Lynn Thomas who talks about emotional intelligence as both personal awareness and personal regulation. She has great insight as to when it’s time to leave a job. I’m going to wait for you to find the answers on the episode. I hope you enjoy it.
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Our guest is Lynn Thomas, who’s a dynamic energetic leader with years of experience in customer service and retention. Also, with a proven record selling and sustaining more than 480 long-term clients purchasing best-in-class customer retention, loyalty and experience programs to improve customer and employee retention. Her expertise in creating and executing tailored client presentations and adjusting implementation plans based on relevant information assures client delight. She’s skilled at inspiring others to accept change and adopt new behaviors to deliver extraordinary client experiences and has strong leadership and relationship-building skills. She connects with people instantly and works as intimately as possible in a corporate setting to empower the employees and foster change. Welcome to the show, Lynn.
Thanks so much, John. I’m happy to be here.
Let’s start with your own story of origin. You can go back to when you were a tax attorney at Arthur Andersen or when you got your law degree, wherever you want to start the story.
Growing up, my father loves his job, which I didn’t realize how unique that was. He would come home singing and dancing, having a good day and tell us what was going on. There was this mindset that work was fun that was ingrained in all of us. It’s what allowed me to transition to different careers because as soon as I stopped having fun, my mindset inside went, “This isn’t the right place for me. This isn’t the right job.” I started as a tax attorney at Arthur Andersen. There are aspects of that that I truly loved, but I was getting feedback which is the key way to see what untapped potentials you have. Some people would say kindly, “You’re much more gregarious than we are. You’re comfortable standing up in front of a room talking or speaking.” I was like, “My parents are both speakers. It’s not a big thing.” They said, “Maybe you dress with a lot more colors.”
I got the sense that I was not bad but different. I didn’t hear this as negative. What I got for myself is I loved interacting with people. Not for 5 to 7 years more would I be at the partner level. For me, I don’t mind supporting for being behind the scenes but I’m best out in front or make the greatest impact out in front. I left. I went to Bank of Boston as a private banker, which I loved but in about eighteen months, I boiled it down to five different types of clients. Within about 3 or 4 minutes of meeting somebody, I could figure out which one they were. It wasn’t that challenging. I was recruited over to be a change agent for a division of the bank that was changing. This is an area that had not gone through any change for decades. They want them to change really quickly. The end result was that of the 1,800 people there, 2 people had heart attacks. One had died and was out on disability.
Accessing Untapped Potential: Be willing to go out to the skinny branches, reaching for the best fruit, reaching for the next step.
It was clear they were managing it well. That was great. They acknowledged that but I went out and found somebody who was willing to give a pretty thorough explanation of stress and that amount of stress. Stress is the new age thing back in the late ’80s, early ’90s. I came in and spoke to the head person. I said, “These people are good. They give a discounted rate because they’ve never worked with anybody here. It’s $500.” He said, “No.” I said, “It’s for everybody.” He said, “No.” I said, “I’ll pay for it.” He said, “No.” I remember at that point, the hair stood up in the back of my neck and I was like, “I want to get out of here.” I turned around and I resigned the next day. It was yuck. If this is about using people to get to the corporate bottom line, I’m not part of that. That’s not who I am. There had to be better ways. I knew there were better ways. That’s why I left and founded my own company.
I look back on it like, “Lynn, you gave up three careers.” The end of it wasn’t fun. It wasn’t challenging for me. It wasn’t using all of my untapped potential and some of it being tapped. I was fortunate I wound up working with the gentleman, Scott Jones, who did invent voicemail. He was enthralled with a lot of the work I did. I worked with his company for years. They had gone through a change. They were moving from where they started as a small tech company to a larger company. Usually, when a company moves, production goes down and they couldn’t afford for it to go down. I was working with all the various different teams. I was keeping them all inspired and motivated. I’m encouraging them to embrace the new place and how to make it their own. It wound up that their production has gone up. I was very delighted with the results there. I learned a lot from Scott.
One of the things Scott took away from what I said and took it to another level is doing two things uncomfortable every day. He does ten things uncomfortable every day. He gets a patent about it every two years. People say, “That’s a lot.” I said, “How do you do that?” I’m like, “Does he go anonymous?” I think so. He’s been doing that for years. Those are the source of his a-has or his new insights. Also, what he does is comes up with twenty solutions or options to his greatest personal professional problem every day. When he wakes up, whichever pressing, he forces himself to do that.
The great thing about that is I do it probably twice a week. I’m not as disciplined perhaps as he is. I said, “Scott, why twenty?” He said, “The first 3, 4, 5, everyone’s going to come up with. They are off the top of your head. That’s what we were going to come up with. “You have 5, 6, 7. Up to ten is okay.” When you start getting around 14, 15, 16, you’re combining them. You take a little bit of 3, maybe 5 and 11 and you’re like, “Wow.” The first time I did this, John, I felt this different level of creativity that I tapped into. In school, college, graduate school or law school, nobody ever said come up with twenty solutions.
It’s impossible. You’ll come up with one and you’re done. Let’s double click on some of the things you said here. There are so many great takeaways. The first one is it’s time to leave your job when it’s not fun and not challenging. That combination is the key. Sometimes something could be fun but you’re bored or you’re not having fun and it’s challenging but it’s tedious. When you have neither fun nor a challenge going on, that’s a lethal combo. I had not heard anybody put those two things together as criterion for when you know it’s time to move on. I like that.
[bctt tweet=”Time to leave your job when you are not having fun and not being challenged.” username=”John_Livesay”]
That’s for me. For other people, it may be different but I like to be challenged and I know that will push me deeper into different resources I have and finding the energy. It’s fun to do.
It’s a valuable thing to take a look at and we’ll tie it into EQ. The other thing you said that I like is to do two things that are uncomfortable every day. That could be taking a cold shower. It doesn’t get any more comfortable if they did it. It doesn’t suddenly make it comfortable. One example of that is taking a cold shower. I started doing that and I realize that you get pushed out of your comfort zone and you’re like, “I can tolerate this. Therefore, if anything else happens in my day that is uncomfortable, I’ve already got that muscle working a little bit.”
That’s a great way to do it. I’m not sure taking a cold shower is ever uncomfortable. You may get a little more used to it. Your body is not as shocked but the idea of being uncomfortable, I wish I could say I made this up but I was listening to Tom Peters years ago. He’s, if not the highest, one of the highest-paid consultants in the country. He was talking to all of us in this large audience and he said, “Would you go to work the same way every day, take the same route, the same exits, park around the same place, walk-in with the same people, eat with the same people at lunch, go home the same way, stopped to get the milk or whatever you need to get? At night, you watch the same programs. On the weekend, you hang out with the same people?” I said, “Where the heck you’re supposed to get new ideas?”
That was one of those blinding flashes to the obvious. You’re like, “If I do the same, I’m reinforcing confirmation bias.” What he said is, “Every time I go to the airport, I pick up a magazine I know nothing about. The rest of you pick a magazine you know something about to be comfortable.” I’ve started doing things like that, doing hobbies or things I’m not good at all. I’ve learned different things about myself. Doing two things uncomfortable every day becomes fun. For Scott, he needs no coffee or orange juice. When you wake up and you’ve done 10 years of 10 a day, you run out of them.
He’s like, “What am I going to do?” He’s like jazzed. He’s like, “We got to come up with ten things.” He knows the value of it but it’s his fun way to start the day. The reason we do that is if we stay in our comfort zone, what we all wind up in and it could be an exaggeration but not is a lead line coffin. We die if you stay comfortable. I’m not saying it’s wrong. I advocate if you want to reach new potentials and see new abilities come forth, which we all have, if you stay comfortable, you’re probably not going to find those. I don’t have any judgment on that. It’s wasn’t for me.
Accessing Untapped Potential: You can always learn something from a hardship.
I’m working with an insurance agency out in California. They brought in a new CEO. The first time they’re comfortable, they’re going to fire them because they said they want to be on the leading edge. That’s daring. If somebody said the fruit grows on the end of the skinny branches, that’s where the fruit grows. Sometimes going out there, you may fall. You learn your lessons. You stand there. You wipe yourself off and you climb back up the tree because that’s where life’s happening. Be willing to go out to the skinny branches, reaching for the best fruit, reaching for the next step. Maybe a mistake and you fall. “What did I learn?” Go back. At least for me with what I’m doing is all different types of skills to help clients because I don’t know in any organization what is needed for them to reach the levels of where they want to go and be.
This concept of if we’re not stretching our comfort zone every day that we will be in the same zone. My observation is even if you want to stay in your comfort zone, you can’t. It keeps shrinking if you’re not pushing and growing it. I wanted your opinion on that. Have you noticed that in your own life or others where they go, “I’m not going to learn any new things,” then you’re like, “Not only are you not growing but that comfort zone gets smaller and smaller?” You can’t stay where you are. You’re either growing or shrinking. There is no, “I’ll just stay here and coast.”
What I say when I’m doing a speaking engagement or something is if you do live your work the same way now as you did yesterday, you’re falling behind the crowd. Every day it was uncomfortable to do something new and different. That’s important because everybody’s out there, especially with COVID. COVID has taken us all into amazing uncomfortable stuff. I don’t think there’s anybody that’s been able to escape it. It’s been uncomfortable. It’s produced anxiety, stress, PTSD, grief and lots of horrific situations. It’s not positive but I’m a person who always believes that I can always learn something from hardship, from difficulty. There are always opportunities. There’s something always there.
What I see with COVID is that all of a sudden, the way companies can attract and retain top employees is by giving them almost unlimited development choices. Employees are thinking, “Am I going to be employable in 2, 3, 5, 7 years?” Who knows? The only protection is whatever your job is or whatever your skills are, you have to be on the leading edge, working with those on the leading edge or somehow engaging with them.
People say, “I don’t want to change.” Let’s say, “Let’s be clear. If you don’t want to change, that’s okay.” You’re rapidly becoming obsolete because things are changing. I read somewhere that COVID has accelerated the pace of digital technology for 4 to 6 years. It’s put us in 2020 where we’d be at 2025 and maybe people will feel like, “This feels more like 2025 or what I thought it would feel,” but we’re here. A lot of companies, a lot of Millennials and Gen Z say they are assaulted by the level of technology at some companies. The insurance legacies still hang onto some of that. It’s like, “Just give it up.” You have to make sure you’re giving your employees the best tools, especially those who are technologically savvy. You want them on the best.
[bctt tweet=”Do two things that make you uncomfortable every day.” username=”John_Livesay”]
Maybe you’ll see, “That will make this even faster, better, more robust, deeper or whatever the quality is that they want it.” Listen to them because the people older are not going to probably come up wit6h those ideas. That generation is going to figure out how to do those things. Listen to employees. When I find companies saying, “How do we bring them back?” My newsletter is coming out. I talk about it in that. What I find the best, John, is a series of decisions. Not one decision because nobody knows. Maybe months from now, COVID is going to get worse. Maybe it will get much better. We don’t know.
To make any decision permit, it’s like, “We’re going to start with everybody coming in two days a week. Let’s say Tuesday and Thursday.” Those days that they’re in, give them a reason to be in there. Set up meetings, collaborative and have people socially talking about what they did over COVID. What worked and what didn’t work. How did they deal with stress? Engage in them. I read about one other show telling about a client. It was a high-tech guy but he did is he changed the company. On the whole first floor, he’d put sofas and allow their tables that could come off and they could use. Most people were doing work there as they were talking with each other and there’d be much more productive.
Some people went upstairs after that idea but when people came in, the first place they went was the sofas. It was open and it was free food. He said people are more productive than ever. People want to come in, which he didn’t know what was going to work but he wanted to make it as attractive as possible. Ask your employees what they do like about working at home. Can you recreate some of that at work? Do they like the fact that they can take a break and go for a walk, run some errands, chat with some people, sit down or do yoga? What is it that people are doing? Is it Peloton? Get a few machines around. Who knows? To replace an employee, 300% or 500% of that employee’s compensation and that’s just to get on the skills. It will take 2 to 6 years for them to be as productive. If you have people who are talented, sit down. “What’s it going to take to keep you here? I want you.” If you don’t give it to them, they’re going to leave. You can sit back.
Don’t wait for them to have another offer before you try to keep them, is what you’re saying.
You make it so engaging for them. They’re heard, seen and valued.
Accessing Untapped Potential: If you don’t want to change, you’re rapidly becoming obsolete because things are changing.
That’s what people want. It doesn’t change from childhood when we jumped in the pool and say, “Look at me, mom or dad.” We want to be seen, heard and feel valued. I had an experience of what you’re describing. I was attending an internet marketing party virtually. That was originally in Austin. They started having them in person. He said, “We’re going to take something that we did on the Zoom calls, which is the random breakout rooms where people would meet new people and make it happen here in the real event.” Depending on what your name tag color is a number, you’re going to be going randomly into a corner to talk to people. We found that most people keep talking to the people they already know.
We’re taking a virtual experience where it was random that people liked and recreating it in a real-life experience. That’s an example of what you’re talking about. Figure out what people liked about the virtual and figure out a way to make that new real-life situation going back to the office. I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you about emotional intelligence, EQ because this is one of your areas of expertise that gives you these amazing results of employee retention and productivity. Let’s start with your definition of what it is and what the biggest mistake you see people making with it.
The higher emotional intelligence, the ability that gives you to be able to use your feelings and emotions, understand other people’s situations, use them, harness them, to be the best you can be and your team can be. I’ve been to some organizations where I had a situation where this one woman was not perceived her value to exceed everybody else’s. She was 11, 12, on a 10-point scale. Other managers didn’t value her. She thought she was the best and had great relations with everybody. When she took emotional intelligence, it was low. I’ll call her Harriet. I say, “Harriet, you didn’t come out high in emotional intelligence.” “It’s just a test. Dismiss it.”
I said, “Let me show you what the average of the company was. You’re twenty points less.” “No big deal.” I said, “It’s not a big deal but it’s significant if we look at some of the feedback you’ve gotten from the other managers.” “I’ve been here longer and they’re jealous of me.” She had her story. I said, “I don’t think it’s the whole story.” She was so blinded because she said, “If I’ve said that, I didn’t mean to.” What people don’t get and this is something that took me a long time to get too is I had to take a lot of responsibility for what I say how it lands on who I’m speaking to. She said, “I didn’t mean to hurt them. I don’t mean to hurt their feelings.”
“Because I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings, I’m not responsible,” which is so insulting.
[bctt tweet=”EQ is personal awareness.” username=”John_Livesay”]
You should have the feelings you have. It’s invalidating their feelings and then dismissing them because “I didn’t mean to so therefore you’re wrong to have them.” It’s like, “No.” It’s taking the risk. One is people take responsibility for how it lands. If you get feedback regularly, you listen, you interrupt or you roll your eyes. Whatever behaviors people do, many of them are not aware of it so it’s great to give people feedback if they’re open to it.
Emotional intelligence versus personal awareness is the beginning of it. Only 1/3 of us, John, at any moment, know what we’re feeling. You have 2/3 of people not even know what they’re feeling. That’s just the beginning. There’s this thing I use called the feeling wheel. If you Google that, people have about twelve different words through their feelings. “I’m mad, angry, sad, pissed or happy.” The more you can expand that, “I’m annoyed. I’m content,” the wider range of feelings we can experience. One of the ways to increase personal awareness is to become more aware of your feelings. What triggered them? Why are you feeling them? If only a third of us are doing that, there’s 2/3 that has a lot to learn about that. That’s not good or bad.
With COVID, people better be much more aware of the feelings because we may inadvertently stomp on someone’s feelings. There’ll be people that we feel frustration, sadness, anger and do not know what to do with it because those typically didn’t come up much at work. I predict they’ll be coming up a lot at work because they’re going to be missing the old or how they did it the old, not liking the new or who they’re sitting next to, who they work with. This person didn’t come back and they really miss that person. It’s going to take a while for companies to go in that.
That’s personal awareness, then personal regulation, which is that people are able to regulate your feelings internally. You don’t yell. You don’t shout. You’re not abrupt. Any of the ways that I call anger leaks out like, “I’m not mad. Why should I be mad?” “I’m not hysterical. This is not hysterical. Do you want to see hysterical? I’ll show you hysterical.” I can manage that. Sometimes that’s taking deep breaths and say, “I need a moment. I’m triggered here.” Be honest with employees, “Can we take five because I need to go take a walk, I need to go to the ladies’ room or something?” Be aware and vulnerable. We’re going to die with triggers. It’s the way we’re built. For me, managing them, owning them and saying, “This is not appropriate for me to respond because I’m not going to respond from a solid place and happy place inside me or a positive place.” That’s emotional regulation.
Emotional Intelligence 2.0
That’s the area I find is probably where there are lots of blind spots. A lot of people are conflict avoidant and they don’t want to admit it. I apply it to mine. He finally said, “I think I minimize that conflict. It’s about to blow up the company.” He saw it separately as each individual event. I pointed out, “Didn’t you see that in that meeting? Every time you said risk, this person is like, “That’s not a big deal.” You still check it out and you never checked it out.” I forgot about that. He used to get back to me.” “He doesn’t want to take risks and you’re conflict avoidance so nothing’s moving forward.”
We live in our own world. We live in our own brains. We think the whole world is thinking and operating like us. As he became more aware of that, he would hold people accountable and responsible for getting back to him but he didn’t see that. A programmed from childhood is a lot of what gets through our particular activating system in the back and what we think is important. He probably learned comfort zone is not important so I’m not going to pay attention to them. They’re pretty important.
Let’s talk about something in terms of what most people do whether they’re in sales or not, which is rejection. How does EQ come into play with rejection, especially around the feeling wheel? Most people when they get rejected feel either sad or mad. It certainly can trigger previous times when they got rejected. Maybe even in their personal life, not in business life. If a client stands you up or cancels at the last minute, has some flimsy excuse and it’s the 2nd or 3rd time they’ve done it, then if you’re angry from being mad, you’re like, “Why do people think they can treat me like this?” You feel not seen and heard or certainly don’t feel valued. How can someone pull up from that downward spiral using EQ when the rejection stuff is kicking in, either they’re mad and/or sad?
I would say feel fully in a safe place. I believe in expressing feelings in safe ways. The best sound for anger is breaking glass. You can send away for this ball that you can throw it and break the glass. My psychiatrist told me about that. It feels great or yelling in the car safely. It’s expressing it in some way. Sometimes you’re talking through it for myself. If it’s the 2nd or 3rd time, if that happened to me, I’d say, “I have to have some accountability here.” If the person canceled once and had a flimsy excuse the second time. I went back a third time. That’s my motto on my face. I gave anybody a second chance and if they cancel, it’s about them. They didn’t want to deal with whatever I was offering. It wasn’t the right time. They were willing to speak up. They don’t want to say, “I’m a good salesperson or something.” They don’t want to say no.
Let me get that forward. It’s about them. As a salesperson, if somebody says no, whoever at that point was on the phone talking to them as you were talking to them, anybody else, they would have said the same thing. It’s about them. They’re saying no to something. The real question to you, John, is what did they say no to? It takes seven noes to get to a yes typically. They say, “No, it’s not the time. No, I don’t like what you’re presenting. No, I don’t need it.” It’s like, “I hear your no. Could you tell me why?” You may find out it’s not what you’re thinking. Not all noes are equal.
We love to jump to take it all personally. A lot of it has to do with that. Their whole life is out of control. They’re canceling everything. You only experience it on your end. That for me is one way to deal with a rejection thing where I go, “Am I taking this personally?” Also, the mindset of scarcity or abundance comes into play. “Am I putting all my eggs in one basket? If this person doesn’t buy from me or like me, does that mean no one’s ever going to like me or buy from me?” No. They’ve shown you your true colors. Thank you. I get it. I’m not going to keep pursuing this. I’ve got an abundance of people who will show up and do want what I want. I don’t have to get into this downward spiral of believing that things never work out. In fact, the opposite is the mantra that things are working out for me all the time.
[bctt tweet=”Feel fully in a safe place. Express feelings in safe ways.” via=”no”]
If someone’s giving you a true no, that’s great because there’s one fewer prospect for you to talk with. If it’s a true no, you’d investigate it, it’s great. That’s to you. “She’s the best. Let me move on.”
Any last thought or quote you want to leave us with?
I don’t have a last quote but I want to give an example with shirts. If I go and I pick out one blouse, the blouses don’t sell, “She rejected me. Why does she do that?” “It’s not about the blouse.” It’s like, “This is what I prefer that works.” Other ways to untap the potential is to put yourself in unusual, different situations like eating different food. When we were young, every Sunday we’d go eat at lots of different restaurants with all the different kinds of cuisine. My parents would say, “Try it. You’ll like it.” There are very few foods I don’t like. We go to different places to dance, have fun and see all that.
Look upon the world as being curious as a fun place. “Where do I find out new ways to do things, new ways that people handle? What is the new perspective? How can I see this differently?” Ask somebody, “If you were in my shoes, how would you see this?” Finishing with emotional intelligence, the relation management part is the hardest and that’s the fourth quadrant. That’s how you manage. My relationship with my daughter vis-à-vis my relationship with my client. It takes a lot of emotional and social awareness. Sometimes people want to jump into those and it’s very hard to do. I’d say the book Emotional Intelligence 2.0 is a great one. It gives ideas of how you can increase them all. If you think about EQ, you can always increase it. Not like IQ. IQ always increases and easily. They tell you easy, fun things to do. Explore life, have fun. Be like my friend Scott where you wake up saying, “What am I going to do uncomfortable?” Enjoy.
What is the best way for people to reach to you if they want to work with you as a consultant or hire you as a speaker?
My email is [email protected]. I welcome any questions. I can also tell you how to say anything to anybody and make it sound nice. I’ve been told. I’m happy to do that if you don’t know how to say something. It’s possible that you said a lot of empathy over there in however I want to hear it.
Lynn, thanks so much for sharing your EQ, your passion and encouraging us to get out of our comfort zones.
It’s my pleasure. Thanks so much, John.
Important Links
- Emotional Intelligence 2.0
- [email protected]
- Lynn Thomas
- Better Selling Through Storytelling Method Online Course
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How To Be Unstoppable with Shawn Ellis
Posted by John Livesay in podcast | 0 comments
Episode Summary:
When you combine passion and skill in your career, nothing can stop you from soaring. Shawn Ellis, founder and CEO of The Speakers Group, talks about being able to find an outlet for his passion for his personal and professional development in the meetings industry. His clients have included Fortune 500 companies, trade associations, and healthcare organizations. His story about his journey, experiences, insights, and strategies are definitely worth sharing to serve as inspiration for people to be unstoppable.
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Listen To The Episode Here
How To Be Unstoppable with Shawn Ellis
Our guest is Shawn Ellis, the Founder and CEO of The Speakers Group, which represents top speakers around the country. He said that he has a special gift for the listeners, which includes not one but two gifts. The first one is you can download his free eBook, Unstoppable, which is all about your mindset. He’s giving us the ability to download his positioning worksheet which helps you answer the questions, “Who do you help and what problems do you solve and what makes you unique in the workplace?” Shawn never expected to find an outlet for his passion for his personal and professional development in the meetings industry, but he did. Since 1999, he’s enjoyed helping meeting planners and business leaders secure top speakers and thought leaders for their events.
After helping to lead a natural speaking bureau to become one of the 50 fastest growing privately owned businesses in Tennessee, he sent out to work with a smaller select group of speakers in 2003 and founded The Speakers Group. Through those years, his clients have included Fortune 500 companies and trade associations and healthcare organizations. He’s earned the reputation of being consistent, knowledgeable, trustworthy. He serves on the board of the International Association of Speakers Bureau. In fact, he was the president for his service back in 2010. He lives in Nashville and enjoys all of the things that someone who lives in Nashville is all about, which is music and enjoying the outdoors. Shawn, welcome to the show.
John, thank you so much for having me.
I always want to ask my guest their own story of origins. If you wouldn’t mind, you can go back as far as you want, childhood, high school, college. When did you have an interest in speaking or growth personal development? What was your first memory of, “This is the direction I want my life to go?”
[bctt tweet=”Be unstoppable in your thinking.” username=”John_Livesay”]
It’s been an interesting journey. I never imagined landing in this industry. I got a call from the owner of a Speakers Bureau. I was just out of college and I was happily employed. I had my five-year plan mapped out and all that thing. I got a call from somebody at the Speakers Bureau. Being in Nashville and having a little bit of music background myself, my first thought was, “It must be something related to bands and music and sound speakers.” I went in for the interview and had these conversations and I was intrigued. I look back on it. The more years go by, the more of the pieces of the puzzle fit together. I’m thinking back to when I was a kid and my dad had the Nightingale Conant tape sets on the top of our console TV. I remember seeing Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins.
As a matter of fact, I’ve got some of those tapes sets in my office now that they cleaned out their house. They asked if I want it and I said, “I’ve got to have those.” It’s funny though. As a kid, I didn’t pay that much attention to it, but it was there. To go on and end up working with some of the people who were on those tapes sets, those are many of the legends living in and passed in our industry now. It all fit together as far as me branching out and starting speaking on my own in addition to working behind the scenes with speakers. I was the shyest kid in school growing up. I never imagine that I would get onstage and speak to people. It just brings it all together. Now, I couldn’t imagine doing anything else. It’s been an interesting journey to get here.
You have to pitch speakers all the time to clients. Since this is The Successful Pitch, let’s start there. How do you distinguish yourself from other people that are pitching speakers?
When I look back on all the years doing this, the one thing that I’ve learned how to do well and the thing I do most consistently is pitching and positioning speakers. That’s where it begins. Talking with a client, getting to understand their event, their needs, their budget, and all those details and then recommend the right speakers for them. For me, it’s all about figuring out what is right for them and then connecting the dots and going through my existing network of speakers. Sometimes if their needs are a little obscure or different than the zone I usually work in, it’s tapping into other resources in the industry, colleagues and other agencies or whatever the case may be. I try not to recommend more than three to five max speakers at a time. I try to keep it to three just because anything more than that, we know it gets into analysis paralysis and just gets overwhelming.
How To Be Unstoppable: In becoming a professional speaker, it’s better to have a book than not have a book.
I try to go to them with three speakers where each one is different. Each one I believe would be outstanding for further event and I’ll make the presentation. “Here’s why I’m recommending Bob or Joan or John,” whoever it might be. I’m pulling out my experience with the speakers to go along with their bio, their video, and all that stuff. You can find that anywhere on Google. Google has all that index. I help them see, “Why is this speaker the right speaker for our event?” Knowing that they’re going to want to make that final decision themselves. That’s why they don’t call on me to tell them who they should book, but to at least narrow the list to three strong candidates. I’m like, “You can pick any one of these three. It’s going to be outstanding, but which one resonates best with you.” They still got that freedom there.
People will say, “I want to talk to these five people you’ve put in front of me.” You take it a step further and help coach the speakers that work with you on what to say on those calls. Is that correct?
That’s part of it. It’s twofold there. One, all the speakers I work with, I want to help them be as successful as they can be but also I want to maximize the value of that time for our clients. When they get on those calls because they’re taking valuable time. Whether it’s talking with two speakers or three or however many it may be. They don’t want to get on those calls and just get into a pitch fest with their speakers or something that feels like the speaker is just selling themselves. It’s about how to have a real conversation and helping the speakers understand and give them a little bit of an insight into the meeting planner’s world. Help them identify the parts of their expertise or background that are going to be the most relevant to any given client.
I find that people make decisions on who they want to invest in or who they want to hire or what products they want to buy based on trust as a core foundation. First, the clients have to trust you to find a speaker, and then they have to trust you to curate for them. There’s a book out called The Paradox of Choice that talks about too many choices overwhelm us and it can be depressing. People don’t make decisions and don’t pull the trigger when they’re presented with too many choices. How do they find someone like you who can curate something to their needs? Can you talk about what you do especially in today’s world where a lot of people are picking a speaker based on the committee? How do you help them decide when it’s a committee decision? Which speaker to pick? Do you work with one person on the committee and then say, “Here’s how I would pitch this person to the committee?”
[bctt tweet=”Who do you help and what problem do you solve?” username=”John_Livesay”]
A lot of times it is a committee and unfortunately, I don’t get to speak to the entire committee. I always make myself available where I’d be happy to participate in one of those meetings. What I try to do with my one contact or two is to try to prepare them so they can go into that meeting. I want them to look good when they go into that meeting. They want to go in feeling confident because that group of speakers is the advocate going into that committee meeting. They don’t want to be ambushed there and not know the answers to the questions or whatever it may be. That’s part of also saying, “Here’s why I’m recommending this speaker,” knowing that gives them something. They can go in and have that information themselves so they’re not just saying, “Here’s the speaker’s bio.” Passing it around, they can make a case for each speaker. Everybody on the committee can those perspectives and chime in. Hopefully, that feedback comes back and we can keep the dialogue going to refine the selection from there
Part of that is, they’ve trusted you to do that. What you are good at is telling a personal story of why you trust that speaker. Can you give us an example of that?
First of all, I’ve got to trust the speaker. As I’ve told speakers and clients, if I recommend a speaker to a client, my reputation is on the line. Being in the business this long, that’s one reason I’m still here. They’ve learned that they can trust me and trust the speakers I represent.
For example, you helped me launch my speaking career to another level. When I was speaking near you, you took the time to drive and come hear me so you could personally see how the audience responded as opposed to just watching my sizzle reel.
How To Be Unstoppable: You would rather have no demo reel than have a bad demo reel because you never get a second chance to make a first impression.
There’s nothing like being able to see a speaker in person. By the time I saw you, we had already been working together. I had booked you and heard great feedback from clients so I knew I could trust you and I would recommend you with confidence. After I saw you in person, that took it to a whole new level. Now I’m not only relaying somebody else’s experience with you, but I can share my own experience like, “This is what I saw.” It’s not only about what I see on stage, but it’s also hearing the feedback afterward, seeing the enthusiasm. People come up and talk to you or when they come up and talk to a speaker afterward. That’s what I’m looking for because that’s how I can relay that to a client to say, “Not only you’re going to look good when you book this speaker. You’re going to look good because your people are going to be thrilled that you made the selection and brought this great resource to them.”
I’m constantly talking about the importance of telling a great story. You’re a great storyteller and pitching people who are storytellers. That’s what most speakers do. It’s fascinating to me to see your process of having to sell them to hire you versus another bureau. You have to sell them on which speakers you think are the best fit and why and help them get that through a committee. The person they hire has to deliver a great story that’s not just entertaining. It’s got to have some actual valuable takeaways that are going to make an impact on their bottom line to justify the fee. It’s a whole series of things that have to happen to make your business soar and take off. A lot of speakers get stuck and you help them get unstuck. How do you do that, Shawn?
There are different components of getting unstuck and different people might be stuck in different places. Sometimes it’s self-doubt or just believing in themselves. There are two ends to the spectrum. Some speakers come to me and they are so confident. They know they’re the best thing in the world and we have to reel that back in. They may be right, but I’ve got to tell them, “You’re one of ten, twenty or hundreds of speakers that any given clients are looking at. We’ve got to make sure we can put this in the language that matters to them.” In other cases, it’s speakers that feel intimidated because there are so many speakers out there and they feel like, “How am I ever going to cut through? How am I going to break through the market?” That’s for speakers who were early in their career and those who have been around for a while. They’d come to me and they say, “The market is more crowded than it’s ever been.” They’re feeling a little uneasy about this. The most popular topics, the sales motivation, leadership, these are basic topics. There are only so many principals to go around, but every speaker has a unique angle.
Everybody’s got their own perspective, their own experience and says it in their own way. There’s a need for everybody out there. Sometimes that’s the part of getting a speaker unstuck. It’s helping them uncover what is unique about you. It goes back to the story because it is helping them connect with their own story. If you just go out and say, “Here are the top seven principles to succeed in selling,” chances are they’ve heard a lot of those principles before. What connects those principals together is uniquely you. Sometimes it’s helping speakers see that, which then ties back into them. It’s helping them make their pitch to show how are they unique and how does their uniqueness serve their client. That’s where it all comes back to helping the speaker knows. In sales, we always hear the most popular radio station, WIIFM, What’s In It For Me. It’s helping speakers translate what they’ve got, which is so valuable into presenting it in a way that makes sense to the client.
[bctt tweet=”A great presentation is going to take an audience through ups and downs. ” username=”John_Livesay”]
You’re able to identify who you help and what problem you solve. You’re using stories as a tool to get people to see themselves in the story that they feel like, “You have empathy for what I’m going through because you’re telling a story that’s relevant to me.” It’s a whole way to differentiate yourself from everybody else in the pack.
It’s helping them see themselves in that story and see what’s possible to use your imagination. You bring out the power of storytelling and help your clients power up their storytelling because there’s nothing like it.
For people who are possibly interested in becoming a professional speaker, let’s go through some of the criteria for social proof. How important is it for someone to have authored a book in starting their career?
That’s a question that I get often. It’s better to have a book than not have a book. It’s not a requirement to get into the game. There’s plenty of speakers out there who don’t have books, but it takes your credibility up a notch for sure. The success of the book, the longevity of the book, all that plays into it as well. It helps with credibility. The other thing that it helps with is it gives people a chance to get to know your expertise and to hear your story. When they bring you in to speak, they haven’t just seen a five-minute demo video and read a couple paragraphs, but they have a better idea of your range of expertise. It’s not only about getting you jobs on the front end, but it also adds that much more depth to the events that you do.
How To Be Unstoppable: Everybody’s got their own perspective, their own experience, and says it in their own way.
Within the word of authority is the word author. Whatever you’re the author of, it creates you as the authority of that topic. That’s the relevant aspect of that. What about giving a TEDx Talk? Does that help someone’s credentials as a speaker?
It depends on the space that they’re in and the topic of their TED Talk. There are so many TED Talks out there and all these different topics. They’re all just brilliant. They’re so interesting to listen to, but not all of the TED Talks tie into the speaking market. You can go out and speak on anything, but it also depends on what do you want to speak about, what do you want to get paid to speak about. Do you want to get paid to speak? Getting paid to speak is a whole different genre from somebody that goes out and does community education talks.
That’s what would factor in on the TED Talk. What is the topic? Does it tie in with what’s a marketable topic for organizations? The notoriety of the TED Talk, the popularity of the TED Talk, that factors in as well. I know your TED Talk. I saw you had over a million views. When you can say that you’ve got over a million views on your TED Talk, that’s something I should pay attention to. That factor is in as well. I would say all of these spokes on the wheel. The more of these things you can put in place, that much stronger you are. If I’m pitching a speaker, if I can say, “Look at John, he’s the author of this book. He’s got this TED Talk.” That will elevate your position.
You mentioned a demo reel, which you send out with a description of the speakers you’re recommending from your list of people who are on your site. What are one or two key things that people should keep in mind when they’re creating a speaking demo reel?
[bctt tweet=”There’s nothing like being able to see a speaker in person.” username=”John_Livesay”]
One of the things that I always tell with speakers is I would rather have no demo reel than have a bad demo reel because you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Once somebody sees that video of you if it’s not representing you in the way that you want to be represented, it’s going to be a lot more difficult. It’s difficult to erase that image from their mind to convince them that, “I know you just saw that video, but I’m better than that.” That video is all they’ve got to go on. That’s the first thing. Let’s say if you want to speak in front of 500 people, then if you’ve got a video that shows you in front of six people around a conference room table, that’s not going to translate. I would rather see no video than have a video that shows you in that light. Try to get a video that shows you in the setting that you want to be speaking in.
That takes some time to get there and that’s all right to be patient with that or if you can invest the time and money and put something together and get the right video. Make sure it represents you well. Make sure that it shows the different sides of you because as we know, any great presentation is not always exciting. It’s not always happy. It’s not always sad or whatever it may be. A great presentation was going to take an audience through ups and downs. Maybe they’re not crying but at least it’s going to touch their heart in some ways. They’re going to laugh. If you can show some of those elements in your presentation or in your video, that certainly helps.
A variety not only in your tone of voice but in the messaging and a short little video. Making sure the sound and lighting are all professional. A good setting that people will think, “This person’s comfortable in front of a big crowd. They’re not going to be a deer in headlights.” You’re trying to mitigate the risk of someone hiring you as a speaker by having all these social proofs. It’s much like somebody who’s pitching to get a startup to an investor. Mitigate the risk or try to sell a product to somebody who’s never bought from you before. The theme that I hear consistently is showing them why you’re the right choice and that you can back up what you’re saying you can do with examples. When that all starts to flow into place and then they get to talk to you, that’s what comes across as, “This person gets me. That’s where I want to work with them.”
The risk piece is a big one right there because as I said, my reputation is on the line when I pitch a speaker. Whoever hires you, their job is on the line. They don’t want any surprises. The more you can show them exactly what they’re going to get, the more comfortable they’re going to feel. The more likely they’re going to work with you.
Unstoppable
You have two resources for everyone that have never been available for free. It’s only for people who have hired you as a consultant. One is called the Unstoppable eBook. Tell us what we will find in there.
That’s something that is fairly new and as I mentioned, I’ve been in this industry twenty years going on just celebrated fifteen years. I’m the Founder of The Speakers Group. If you’ve been doing anything for that long, there are going to be lots of twists and turns and ups and downs. That’s one thing that I’ve found from both on the personal side and professional side going through different challenges, but I’m still standing. One thing I can say is I’m unstoppable. I’ve been unstoppable and that’s true. In that eBook, I share a little bit of my story and just some of the key lessons I’ve learned along the way. I’m so grateful to have learned that and it allowed me to rise up and keep moving forward to be here this long. I hope that will be a great resource. If somebody maybe is struggling with uncertainty or change or whatever it may be, just have a quick jolt of inspiration there.
This mindset is the foundation for everything you do, no matter what your career is. You have some insights and proof that what you’ve done has not stopped you from being successful and happy. Most people think sometimes it’s mutually exclusive or you can’t have them both at the same time. You have shown people how to have both. You also have something that’s a positioning worksheet. What is that, Shawn? How can people learn how to position themselves better no matter what they’re doing?
That is a tool that I’ve only shared with my coaching and consulting clients in the past. I wanted to offer it to your audience because it ties in with this pitch themed conversation. It’s a tool I use with speakers to help them get clear on who do they serve, how do they help them, why do they help them. That ties into your story because you know very well why do you do this. Whatever we do, we don’t have to do this. We could go do something else. If you uncover why you do it, it’s good for us to know. It can help in your marketing. What happens if they don’t work with you? Why is their life going to be better if they do work with you? It’s designed for speakers, but it can be adapted for anyone leading them through this process that I go through with speakers. It’ll help them with their positioning and branding to uncover what’s unique about them. It’s a quick little worksheet, that I hope will give people some good insight and yield some good outcomes that they can use in their own marketing and pitching.
[bctt tweet=”There are different components of getting unstuck, and different people might be stuck in different places.” username=”John_Livesay”]
People can find that at ShawnEllis.com/Pitch. Shawn, any last thoughts of inspiration or ideas that you want to share?
John, thanks again for having me. This has been an interesting conversation. Going back to that trust factor, one thing that came to mind is something that a speaker did one time that helped to gain my trust. When I get to see you live, that’s great but that’s not always possible. One time I came to him with an opportunity and I said, “Here’s what the client’s looking for. Here’s what they’re doing.” He responded back and said, “That’s not the best fit for me. That’s not where I’m at my best.” That brought my respect and trust to a whole other level because now all of a sudden, I know, “He’s not going to say yes to anything I bring to him.” If somebody says yes to everything, that’s what scares me. That gets back to knowing who you are and trusting yourself that, “You don’t have to say yes to every opportunity that’s out there. There is an abundance of right opportunities for you.” Be willing to say no to things. That’s going to help people like me trust you that much more. You put yourself in positions where you know you can thrive and succeed. The results of that are going to be so much better. That’s just one extra thing I would throw in there.
Who we say no to and what we say no to is more important than who we say yes to. For example, if you asked me, “Would you like to speak to a group of CPAs about how to work their optimization and depreciation of their assets?” I would say, “No, thank you.” It’s not just a way to lead your life but a way to build trust. I’ve never heard anybody use that as an indicator of how to build trust, so that’s such a great takeaway. Thank you so much, Shawn. It’s ShawnEllis.com/pitch to get his free resources of the Unstoppable eBook and the positioning worksheet that will help you in every area of your life.
Links Mentioned:
- The Speakers Group
- https://www.TheSpeakersGroup.com/Storytelling-Sales-Secrets-John-Livesay/
- Unstoppable
- The Paradox of Choice
- ShawnEllis.com/Pitch
- Quantmre.com
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