TSP044 | Denise Brosseau – Transcription

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John :

Welcome to the Successful Pitch podcast. Today’s guest is Denise Brosseau. She wrote a book, Ready to be a Thought Leader? She certainly is that. She describes the difference between being a leader and being a thought leader. Denise was named the 2012 Champion of Change at the White House and then went on, in 2014, to be named one of the Top 100 women of influence in Silicon Valley. You can imagine I am happy to have her on the show today.

She has great insights on the importance of having a one-page plan that includes being visible, being credible, and increasing your reputation. She says the keys to being successful and selling yourself is having a vision that you can execute with the right relationships. If you don’t have all three, you need to get them. She says the importance of storytelling is that we see ourselves in the story. You need to use metaphors, and most importantly, she has great example of being vulnerable to be memorable. Enjoy the episode.

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Hi and welcome to the Successful Pitch Podcast. Today’s guest is Denise Rosseau who is the CEO of Thought Leadership Lab, she’s the author of Ready to be a Thought Leader, she was the 2012 Champion of Change at the White House, and in 2014 was named one of the Top 100 women of influence in Silicon Valley. Denise, welcome to the show.

Denise:

Happy to be here.

John :

You have so many great accomplishments and awards, but I always love to hear of what inspired you to become involved in Silicon Valley and entrepreneurships and helping other women get involved in this. Take us back to your first thoughts of, “You know what? I’m going to make a difference.”

Denise:

It’s always such a good thing to start back at that. What’s the why? What is it that drives us to keep going? There is a lot of that thinking that I try to do with people who come to me who think about this idea of taking the stage, is to start with that why. For me, it really began, actually, in business school. I took this wonderful course on creativity in business. The leader of that course was really a guru in that arena and he had us do a lot of very deep thinking about our vision for our future and what we’ve stood for in the world. I came away from a several month exercise with a mission statement. That mission statement was really around more women leaders at the top of every organization.

It came from a deep place that … I look around me and I say, “The world is not really working the way I want it to. If we had more women’s voices, more diverse voices at those tables, I believe that some of the issues that I really, deeply care about are going to come out differently.” My work for the last 20 years has been really around all the different ways I can help move that agenda forward.

John :

I love it. The research certainly backs you up that women CEO’s perform extremely well. I’m curious, was this creativity in business class at Wesley, or was it at our Stanford graduate?

Denise:

It was actually Stanford business school.

John :

Interesting. How nice that they have a class like that.

Denise:

I know! It was definitely my favorite course, along with the entrepreneurship course I actually had the chance to take with Jim Collins. You have some unique opportunities in your life that just coalesce around the future that unfolds for you. Those were two of them.

John :

Right. Anytime a guest, and there’s not many, you’re in a very select few, that have been involved in any way, shape, or form with the White House, I’m always curious to hear about that. Can you tell us about this Champion of Change award?

Denise:

Absolutely. You go along in your life and you work hard and you try to make a difference and it’s, occasionally, true that somebody reaches out from a place like the White House where it’s one of those astonishing moments. You get those emails that say, “You’ve been recognized as a Champion of Change.” You’re like, “Wow! Okay!” First, you look at the return address to make sure it’s real.

John :

Not a prank (laughter)?

Denise:

Let’s be honest, you don’t always believe it. For me, it was such a wonderful culmination of deep amount of work I’ve done in women’s entrepreneurship. I was actually nominated by Springboard, the group that I helped start years and years ago. I still serve on the national advisory council, and the Champion of Change award was really around people in the country, men and women, who had been doing work around encouraging entrepreneurship in a lot of different communities around the country.

They selected a group of us to come and be recognized for that work, and also to have a real tribe sharing. It was just such a wonderful event because, in addition to the recognition and the chance to hear of some great stories, which, of course, we all want to hear about how others did it, and be able to tell our own stories, also having these private rooms where everyone at the table is equally committed to the same cause, and to have a chance to talk.

It was co-led by this great group, Startup America, and their work around how can we get communities to coalesce around ecosystems to help everybody collaborate and cooperate to work more effectively. They were sharing what they learned, we were all sharing what worked in our communities, and we all came away more energized and empowered, and also educated on what was working, the best practice sharing that we all seek and we can’t often find. I thought it was a win-win for me and, of course, it’s lovely to put that on your resume. It’s fun to go to the White House and meet all these amazing people.

John :

I love what you said about the tribe sharing. That really is one of the keys to being a successful anything, whether you’re an entrepreneur, a founder, an investor, is finding your tribe and finding those people that you can learn from and that you can, hopefully, contribute something to. Don’t you agree?

Denise:

Absolutely. So much of the way that I’ve learned to think about this is how much more powerful we can be when we find our tribe. This came to roost for me. I’m running this non-profit years ago here in Silicon Valley called the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs. I was the founder of the organization with some other fabulous people, and we were really churning some great programs and great events and really getting women out there and doing great things, and then we started to grow to other offices and other cities. Then, one day in 1999, I get this phone call from the National Women’s Business Council. I’d never heard of them.

“What’s the National Women’s Business Council?” That was my invitation into this entire tribe of people like me who were working hard at the grassroots level to help women who were growing big business. Not a lifestyle business, but a scalable business that is technology, life sciences companies, media companies, who are really thinking big, raising venture capital. Once I realized I wasn’t the only one, it took everything to another level. I’m always encouraging people to think, “Where is your tribe? Can you amplify those other voices? Can you convene those people? Can you create much more rapid change by bringing those people to the table together?”

John :

That’s it, isn’t it? Rapid change when you’re not doing it alone. Not two years later, last year, you were recognized as one of the Top 100 women of influence by the SV Business Times. Is there one thing that they really pointed to and said, “That’s why we’re putting you in the top 100 for?”

Denise:

I think what I’m known for in Silicon Valley is the one who starts everything. The organization I started, what was called the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs, now called Watermark, is very well known here. I also started another group called Invent Your Future, which is also quite well known. Lots of conferences here in the valley. I started Springboard, which has impacted a lot of people. I’m the gal who starts great and conferences and events and tribes for women. I think it was the culmination of all of those things together that led to that award.

John :

Our listeners can certainly relate to that, because if you’ve got the entrepreneur’s spirit you’re inspired by starting new things and you have multiple things that you’ve started which have all been hugely impactful and successful. Tell the listeners who may not know about Springboard. How great it is.

Denise:

Sure. When we first began the journey to create Springboard, it was a time in the United States where there was not a very visible opportunity for women to come to the stage in front of a community of investors to pitch their big business ideas. At the time, there was really only one, VentureOne was the conference, and if you saw two women on the stage it was a really unique year. Mostly, what we realized at that time was that there just wasn’t this preparation that was necessary. Most women were doing big businesses for the first time and they were not serial entrepreneurs like many of their male colleagues.

Venture capital was, for the first time, even slightly available for women. Our thinking was, if we can create a venture conference that was for women that was a three to six month program prior to the event that was actually selecting the best entrepreneurs and then putting them through a boot camp, a series of mentorship opportunities, and a chance to really prep their business before they got on that stage, and then in addition, some introductions to the right people, the lawyers, the bankers, the accountants, the folks who can really help them shore up their business idea and get it ready for prime time, those women were really going to shine.

We started this here in Silicon Valley in January of 2000. Since then, we’ve hosted these programs, not only across the United States and multiple cities, but we’ve also gone internationally and hosted programs in Australia and Israel and down in South America. The work has no brought, I think, we’re close to 600 women entrepreneurs. Those numbers are astonishing. Businesses have raised $6.7 billion in capital in 15 years. We really have an amazing track record. What I’m even more proud of, because of course the numbers say a lot, there’s another piece to it and that is this tribe of 600 women who have now …

Many of them are serial entrepreneurs, they’re coming back to us for the second and the third business. They are supporting each other, they are serving on each other’s advisory boards, they’re nominating and recognized each other and helping each other to get to that finish line, and also supporting when things don’t work. That’s the thing that keeps on giving, is this alumni community that we created and continue to bring together every other year. I just love going and I try to MC those events every other year and getting to see what’s come as a result and seeing the power of these women now.

They’re in big companies, they’re entrepreneurs, they’re executives, consultants. The knowledge and information that they got and the connections that they got took their careers to a whole other level.

John :

How exciting. You’ve also written what is a big favorite to many, many people. A great book called Ready to be a Thought Leader. What I find so interesting about that is it’s not just ready to be a leader, but ready to be a thought leader. Can you give us your definition of the difference between the two?

Denise:

That’s such a great question because I do think it’s a journey from leader to thought leader. Leader is someone, obviously women, a single organization or entity, usually, who begins to make change, who begins to create followership around an idea of doing things newly, doing things better, shipping a better product, creating a new service, whatever it might be. Then, to me, to take it to the next level, is to realize that that change they’ve created within their own organization, or their product, or their service, could really have a wider impact. They understand that by building a tribe of followers, by creating a blueprint of what they have, by convening within their industry, that they can broaden their change. That, to me, is thought leadership.

It’s taking that knowledge of what you’ve done, the best practices, the lessons learned, and sharing them in a way to impact and broaden the impact that you’ve had.

John :

We’re going to tweet that out.

Denise:

That is when it really makes a difference, I think.

John :

Fantastic. We’re going to tweet that out. “Create a tribe of followers to be a thought leader.” I love it. You write for many, many companies like Fast Company and , and other big publishers. I love your story, which I believe you said comes from your book, Why Leaders are great storytellers. When you’re pitching someone, I’m constantly telling clients it’s all about being a good storyteller because people remember your stories, not your numbers.

I’d love to take a little deep dive, if we could, into why is storytelling so important. You said this line in here about, “We see ourselves in a story.”

Denise:

Yes. It’s exactly what you said. We remember those stories. We engage with story. We don’t engage with numbers. They’re forgotten moments later. A good story where you can share what’s the change that you’re bringing about … I learned this from two places. I learned this from myself when I was pitching the Springboard conference, going out and talking to media and talking to funders. When I could share the stories of the women entrepreneurs we were helping, that’s when I got people on board. It wasn’t the story of Springboard, that was somewhat interesting, but when we could share the stories of and the companies we were helping, being are very involved and engaged with those stories. They want to see how women are making a difference with the great ideas that they have.

Secondly, I learned it when I was trying to create a community of people who understood how to pitch their businesses. Here we are at Springboard and we get women up to tell their story about their companies. I have to say it was a little painful sometimes. They just couldn’t do it and they would not understand that a simple story of why they were doing their business was far more compelling and more likely to get an investor to come up to you after the session then it was if you stood up there and, “Our financials say we’re going to … ” Nobody cares! Yes, you have to have that, that is necessary, but not sufficient. The story is what people engage with.

John :

I love that line. We’re going to tweet that out. “Why is more compelling than your numbers.”

Denise:

Yes it is.

John :

One of the things I love that you wrote is, “When you simplify something, it doesn’t mean you’re dumbing it down.” So many people, especially in technology, whether it’s about artificial intelligence or whatever it is, they try to wow everybody with just how important this is and how it all works. It’s like, “No, explain it to me like I’m a seventh grader.” It doesn’t mean that we’re taking away or dumbing it down.

Denise:

The guy who I think really showcased this so well in the book is the guy, Avinash Kaushik. Avinash was at and he started this wonderful blog called Occam’s Razor. When he talked to me about that decision to step into being a blogger and, in his field which is search engine optimization and web analytics, there was a lot of blogs out there. It’s very complex talking about digital marketing, and web analytics, and search engine optimization. He realized that the gift that he could bring to his followers is this idea of un-complexifying. Which is that idea that we’re not dumbing down, but we’re simplifying information so that our followers can understand and actually learn from.

He was trying to get other people to adopt these search engine optimization tools, see what worked and what didn’t. As he focused on every blog post had to be un-complexified which, of course, is a made up word, but it just sums it all up for me. That’s what we’re doing here in the world. We’re not trying to wow people with the acronyms.

John :

Right. Denise, can you also speak to what you wrote about, about the importance of a metaphor as a way to tell stories?

Denise:

Yes. I really learned this so beautifully from Robin Chase’s Zipcar. She was one of the people that I immediately reached out to when I started my book because she’s always been a leader that I’ve followed and has built a tribe around her ideas on how we use peer to peer networks and how, as the founder of Zipcar, how she’s learned how building collaborative economy businesses is going to actually help transform the global economy by eliminating some carbon emissions. That’s a pretty complex story. Instead, she says what she’s always looking for is “What are the metaphors that people can understand?” She did this great blog post: Fossil Fuel is the new slavery. Morally and economically corrupt.

When you think about that, I want to read that article. I want to know why is fossil fuel the new slavery and what does that mean for my decisions everyday as I drive my car. I should be driving a Prius or a hybrid because I don’t want to be engaging in slavery. It’s not something I believe in. That metaphor captures people’s attention and gets them to examine their preconceived notions. That’s what we’re hoping for all of us when we’re trying to engage people in a new idea. We have to get them out of the mindset that they’re already in, that’s the way it’s always been done, and get them to reexamine and think in a new way. That’s what metaphors help people to do.

John :

The other thing that’s really valuable from your expertise and your storytelling is the importance of being vulnerable, which is so counter-intuitive to what people think they need to do when they’re presenting or pitching. It’s like, “I need to come across completely confident and 100% always perfect.” Ideally, when you show a little bit of vulnerability, that’s how people connect to you. You have a wonderful example of that, if you wouldn’t mind sharing that.

Denise:

I learned this myself, and I like to share the story. In 2011, here I am, I’ve been invited to speak on women’s entrepreneurship at the governor’s conference for women down in southern California. There’s 12,000 people at this conference, at least a thousand of them are in the room, maybe more. I’m on the stage with these three very impressive women, one of whom is literally a swimsuit supermodel who had a big business and was very well known and successful, and then these two women who’d written a book on entrepreneurship, and then there’s me who runs the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs and Springboard.

I’ve obviously been invited there to be the content speaker, because I had all the resources and I knew everything about … These other women were really there to be the pizzazz. I’m listening to them, they’re all presenting, presenting, presenting. I realize, “I’m four out of four. If I go to my content, I’m going to be blur in this whole amazing voice of the future and all these amazing women.” I realized I just have to get real. I have to rethink my presentation style.

On the fly, without any preparation, I told this story that … It’s very deep and meaningful to me, which is really about a challenging time that I had in my life when my father was ill, and my mother was ill, and my best friend’s husband was ill. Over this year, and those challenging times and how it caused me to reexamine my life and to rethink what I was doing. I shared this. Here I am, very emotional for me, and then I shared all my content, great, blah, blah, blah stuff that I had come to say.

I’ll tell you, it was this remarkable moment. After the talk, there was a line around the corner to talk with me. Here’s the swimsuit model who has five people. I’m thinking, “When they walked in that room, I’m sure they all thought they were going to talk with her because she’s the famous one.” By sharing this personal epiphany … Not just for the sake of getting people to cry and not for the sake of getting people to like me, but really from an honest place of why I went back to business school, why I realized entrepreneurship was the path for me, why it can be for you.

There was a theme and there was a line that I was drawing between that story and what I wanted them to be thinking. That caused this huge outpouring of people coming up and approaching me, and that’s what we want as thought leaders. We want to be approachable. This is not about telling stories just for the sake of stories, but for helping people see a path forward for themselves.

John :

That’s brilliant. That is just everything. The same thing is true when you’re pitching an investor. You want them to see themselves in your story and be part of your team and be inspired to wait in line. Of all the pitches they heard at demo day, or whatever the situation is, they want to ask you more questions because they want to know more about your story. It’s just a great, great example.

Denise:

That’s in fact what happened at our first Springboard. There was a woman whose business was not the best business of the 27 businesses that presented that day, but she walked out on the stage twirling a basketball. First of all, that got everybody’s attention, and then she told her personal life story about how basketball and this ability to be good at sports had allowed her to go to college and get these college scholarships, and now she was starting a business to help other athletes from very poor families get scholarships. Everybody was talking about her for the rest of the day. Everyone wanted to go and fund her business. Again, as I said, the business model? Nothing much. She, and her story, we all wanted to help those athletes because we saw ourselves in her, we saw the help she was going to offer as something we could get on board with. It was such a magical moment. It’s totally underlined for me why, as entrepreneurs, we need to be good at telling stories.

John :

Great. One of your other amazing skills is really helping people sell themselves. Let’s face it, that’s what you’re doing when you’re pitching for investors. You have this great one page plan that you talk about how you put that together, that it’s your goals about being visible, and your reputation, and how the fact that you had written that down and even shared it with some people … What somebody’d reminded you of, “Oh, I should put my name in for something as well because that’s on my one-page plan.” Can you tell us about that?

Denise:

(laughter) Oh, that’s funny. Reminders of your life. I had the opportunity years ago to become certified to teach and to use, of course, the one-page plan. A guy named Jim Horan over in Berkeley wrote this book called the One Page Plan. There’s numbers of other versions of the book. I read the book. I used it for my own business. I immediately called him and said, “Wow! This was great. How do I help other entrepreneurs use this tool?” I got certified, and then of course, wrote my own plan as you’re supposed to do when you learn a tool like that. Then, I had this opportunity. This woman from my past called me and said, “There’s a board position open for a for-profit board. Who do you know who should be on this board?”

I’ll drop you an email, let me think about it over night. In the morning, I dropped her three names of great people that I thought, and she wrote back and she said, “Didn’t you show me your plan, and wasn’t it on your plan that you wanted to serve on a for-profit board?” “Oh, yeah!” your own plan. You can’t put it in the drawer. You’ve got to share it with other people and have them hold you accountable. She put all four of our names forward, by the way, and I got the job being on that board. It was so much about having written it down, having committed to it, and having publicly shared it in a way that let those other people bring it back to me and invite me to live that future that I had seen for myself.

John :

Write it down and share it. It’s really the key. You had someone who’d hold you accountable. One of the things I want to ask about, it’s a perfect segue when you’re talking about how that led you to being an advisor, is you’re an advisor on multiple companies, but two that really jump out at me, and I’m probably going to mispronounce both of them … K-O-K-K-O. I’m to even going to try.

Denise:

Kokko.

John :

Kokko. Okay, just like Coco Chanel.

Denise:

Yes.

John :

Tell us about Kokko. I see that it develops color accurate mobile apps for making shopping easy, which I guess it has everything to do with fashion, but maybe paint colors? That sounds like a really great product.

Denise:

Eventually, it will be all of those things. The CEO is actually a woman from Hewlett-Packard. I had met her, we’d served on a panel together years ago. She told me about this idea she’d come up with for using the color technologies within HP to create an app for one of her clients to actually help women choose their foundation makeup color. Turns out, you’d probably never had this challenges, but walking into a store and trying to buy foundation that matches your skin color when you cannot see the color on your skin, it is very hard.

Women often buy the wrong makeup. Yet they often stick with that makeup for years because they don’t know how else to do it. They created an app to actually do that matching. You can take a picture of your skin and in any lighting it will do the color match and then come back to you with recommendations for the perfect makeup for you. They built this within HP, but nobody at HP had ever actually did anything with it.

Eventually, she was able to take that IP out and that was what she built Kokko around. That technology, she’s now rebuilt and owns the IP for that, and this first app is going to launch in the next month or two. It’s a very cool little app that allows you to do that. Take a picture and then get your perfect matching foundation. More than that, it also then recommends other products that would be good for your color and skin tone. Eventually, absolutely, for paint colors, for men to buy the right tie and go with the right shirt, there’s all kinds of color challenges for us, especially when we’re shopping online. You can’t touch it, you can’t see it, you can’t compare it. Technology allows you to do that.

John :

I can even see it for cars. “Do I like that shade of car? It looks different in certain sunlight versus not, and all that great stuff.” What I also find fascinating about that is her background in HP, which is known for having the best inkjet printers, which is all about color, and she’s completely taken that expertise. The questions investors ask a lot is, “Why you and why now?” She is the perfect background for why she’s the one to be running Kokko.

Denise:

Which is why I’d love to tell the story of the day she decided she was leaving HP and she called me because she’s thinking, “What am I going to do next?” I went and had lunch with her and, she didn’t know me that well at the time, we met a few times, but I’d heard about this technology for so long and had been so excited about it that I literally said to her at lunch, “I know you don’t know me well, but I just want to see that right now I would get down on my hands and knees to leave HP and start this company.”

She looked at me very startled. We had a long conversation that day of what it would take for her to do that. She now calls me the fairy godmother of that business because I really saw that future that she’s now living, and she’s living it so beautifully. Now I’m an investor to her company, I’m an advisor to the company. Now she can blame me if it all doesn’t work out.

John :

I’m sure it’s going to work out with you as part of her tribe. The other one, let’s just briefly touch on that if we could, is Vermilion? Did I pronounce that right?

Denise:

Yes.

John :

I love the concept that there’s a blood test to decide whether a tumor is malignant or not. What a problem-solution you’ve got going on there.

Denise:

It’s a little deeper than that. What they have is a test, a blood test, that actually will tell a women early, with some of the first diagnoses of endometriosis and other challenging early diagnoses of problems that you may nor may not be a candidate for ovarian cancer, and be able to treat that disease much earlier, in the stage 0 and stage 1, rather than today which we’re mostly not finding it until stage 4 when a woman is going to die within 3 to 5 years.

It’s a women’s health company. This is the first of their blood tests that is going to be for identifying these markers that are now being able to be identified, and using some very complex algorithms, be able to identify and help save lives. I think it’s remarkable what they’re doing. I’m so proud to be part of it. Even more exciting, is Valerie Palmieri, who is the CEO, was a Springboard presenter and now, as I said, serial entrepreneur. She’s now coming back with another company … Her knowledge from the first one, to even bigger success on the next.

John :

Great examples of how to pitch something in a very short amount of time. We easily understood what the problem was, and what the solution was, and why the people running it are the perfect people to be running it. That’s incredibly useful. Before I let you go, I just want to ask, really quickly, about your VRE program and when you’re selling something is … Have a vision, be able to execute it, and focus on relationships. That’s what the VRE stands for. Do you have any words of wisdom you can share with on that?

Denise:

This model was developed by Dr. Frank Greene, one of my mentors who’s now passed, but he really studied, deeply, a lot of very, very successful executive and entrepreneurs. He recognized that the skillset we all need to be successful as leaders is this ability to craft a vision and be able to articulate it, then to build the relationships that it takes to implement that vision, and third to be able to execute. His point of view is that the best leaders are good at all three of those things. Those of us who may not be, better figure out how to supplement those skills. Mostly, what we need to be doing is building on all of those skillsets throughout to get better and better.

John :

So helpful. Besides your wonderful book, Ready to be a Thought Leader, and the One Page Plan, are there any other books that you would recommend about business or life to our listeners?

Denise:

I’m really found of that book, Switch, by Chip and Dan Heath. I don’t remember the subtitle, but I always say it’s something like How to make Change when Change is Hard. They give some very terrific stories to start with and, secondly, some blueprints for how to make change when change is hard. I quote them in my book and I use their theories as I go out and talk about being a change maker. Ultimately, being a thought leader is about starting as a change maker, so you have to be successful at that and I think that book is very good at helping you to do that.

John :

That’s fantastic. Denise, we’re obviously going to list your book and these other books in the show notes for people to click and buy it, but how can people follow you on social media, what’s your Twitter and all that good stuff?

Denise:

They can find me on my website at thoughtleadershiplab.com, and then, secondly, my Twitter handle is ThoughtLeaderLab, but since that whole thing didn’t fit, there’s no “er” in ThoughtLeader. It’s ThoughtLeadrLab without the second “e”. I’m also on LinkedIn and very active there. People can find me there. I have a Facebook page under Thought Leadership Lab as well.

John :

Fantastic. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you. You are so full of information. I can see why you’ve won all these awards and why you’ve started all these things. It’s all full circle with the things you’ve started are now the things that you’re advising and investing in. It all comes back to you which I’m just thrilled to see. Thanks again for being on the show, Denise.

Denise:

Thank you for including me. I appreciated the conversation.

John :

Thanks for listening to the successful pitch podcast. If you liked the show, please go to iTunes and write a review, and encourage your friends to write reviews too. It really helps get the word out. People say that the longest distance is between someone’s mouth and their wallet. People can tell you they’re going to invest, but when it comes time to write the check, they don’t do it. How do you get people to say yes and then follow through?

Visualize yourself on the left side of a riverbank and you have to cross the river. On the other side of the river is where the funding happens. First, you make up your idea, then you make it real, then you make it reoccur. Once you start dipping your toe into the water to then get the funding, that’s where I can help. I can get you across that river faster than you would on your own with a lot less frustration than you will get when you hear a bunch of “no’s” and you don’t know why. If you want some help getting funded faster with less frustration, go to my free funding webinar, SellingSecretsforFunding.com/webinar, sign up, and get in depth information on how you can get funded fast. Thanks.

TSP043 | Gillian Zoe Segal – Transcription

Posted by John Livesay in Uncategorized | 0 comments

John:

Hi, and welcome to The Successful Pitch podcast. Today’s guest is Gillian Zoe Segal. She is the author of the book Getting There: A Book of Mentors. Gillian has incredible access in this book from Warren Buffet to Michael Bloomberg, Anderson Cooper, to Kathy Ireland.

Are you a founder struggling with your investor pitch? Do you need warm introductions to the right investors to get your startup funded? Do you need a funding roadmap to get you there fast? All of this and more can be found in Crack The Funding Code. Judy Robinett, bestselling author of How to be a Power Connector, and on the board of Illuminate Ventures invite you to our free Crack the Funding Code webinar. Simply go to JudyRobinett.com and click on the webinar tab to see how to tap into our network of investors around the world. There’s a link in the show notes as well. You’re only one click away from getting funded fast!

Gillian, welcome to the show!

Gillian:

Thank you so much for having me.

John:

You know, the people who listen to The Successful Pitch podcast are often curious about, “How can I get in front of the right investors? I know I need to know how to pitch, but how do I get to meet these people?” You’ve written an incredible blog on your LinkedIn profile with over a hundred and twenty-eight thousand views … Congratulations on that. It’s been featured in Fortune and Inc about how you can meet anyone you want and here’s the formula you use. Before we get into the incredible interviews, I’d love to have you walk us through, “How do we understand the lay of the land of these busy people?”

Gillian:

For my book, I interviewed thirty luminaries and it took me five years to complete the book mainly because getting these super busy people to participate was really hard. I put a tremendous amount of effort into it. The blog post you’re talking about is really all the tricks I used, it was a learning curve to do it. I learned from mistakes and that kind of a thing.

First of all, you were talking about the lay of the land and I think that you’ve got to understand, if you’re trying to get in touch with a very successful person, for whatever reason, they are going to be extremely busy and you just have to know you are not the most important thing on their radar. You have to not be upset if they ignore you and reject you. You have to know that that’s going to happen before you even set out and not let that take you off course.

John:

I love that. It’s so relevant to founders trying to get in front of investors. Sometimes, even if you have a warm intro into an investor, and I’m assuming you had some warm intros into some of these amazing people, they still can ignore and reject you even with a warm introduction. It’s not always a guarantee.

Gillian:

It’s completely not a guarantee. You have to know that if someone’s ignoring you, it doesn’t mean that they don’t like your product, it might mean that they’re just too busy so try again, try again, try again.

John:

I love this whole concept of, “How do you handle rejection and not taking it personally,” is so important because, if you take it personally, then you’re going to be depressed and discouraged as you said and then you start doubting yourself. Then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Gillian:

Completely.

John:

How did you learn not to take rejection personally, personally?

Gillian:

I think if you put yourself in a position where you get rejected enough times, you get a tougher skin. When I was contacting all these luminaries, I got rejected over and over again and I just learned to not let that bother me. What’s interesting about that is that a lot of people in my book, the people who are billionaires in the book, credit early jobs in sales with giving them the skills they needed for their ultimate success. Basically, it all goes down to rejection. The early sales job puts you in a position where you’re going to pitch something and get rejected again and again. It toughens your skin. I think that’s really one of the big names of the game is to have a tough skin and get back up and be as enthusiastic in your fifteenth pitch as you were in your first.

John:

There you go. Yes, you can’t let the previous ‘no’ affect your next request.

Gillian:

Exactly. You can’t walk in like you’re already defeated. You have to walk in with some good energy and like you’re excited about your product, or your idea, or whatever it is you’re trying to sell.

John:

What gave you the idea to write this great book about getting there and finding these mentors?

Gillian:

Growing up, I never really had a mentor. At a certain point in my life, I found myself looking around at different highly successful individuals and thinking, “I wonder how he figured his career path out? How did he get there,” and, “How did she become so successful,” and, “Why are these people successful and so many others aren’t. I wonder what the trick is?” I decided to knock on their doors and ask everybody all of the questions that I wanted to know.

John:

I love that. Your curiosity was your passion, basically. That’s what kept you going.

Gillian:

Exactly, exactly. I asked all the things I was curious about and I assumed that, if I was curious about it, other people would be too.

John:

Did some of the people want to know who else was already committed to being in the book to make sure that they were part of an elite group? Was it difficult getting the first one or two?

Gillian:

You know what’s interesting? Some people did want to know who was in it, but the real, real, real, the biggest leaders, I would say, Michael Bloomberg and Warren Buffett, they didn’t care. They didn’t ask. If you’re up there, you know that if you’re in it, it’s going to probably-

I don’t know if it’s because they knew what I just said or because they’re such independent thinkers that they don’t care. If you’re invited somewhere, you could just say ‘yes’. You don’t need to say, “Who else is going to be there? What’s it like?” That’s a little bit more of an insecure way to behave.

John:

I also really love what you write here about never accept ‘no’ from someone who can’t give you a ‘yes’.

Gillian:

I love that. That is a piece of advice that a friend of mine gave me early on in the process. Basically, what that means is, if you’re approaching someone and you get bounced by that person’s publicist or that person’s assistant, or something, don’t get defeated. Try another angle. I use this metaphor that, “If you can’t get in the front door, try the back door. If you can’t get in the back door, try the side door. If that is locked, then try climbing in a window.”

Basically, there are different avenues to get to people. Sometimes, if I called someone’s office and they rejected me, I might call a business that that person owns and try and get in that way. The toughest part about approaching people is having the person know that you’re even there. Everybody has so many guards around them, gatekeepers, that you can’t be sure, if you’re contacting Warren Buffett, how can you be sure he ever even saw your request. That’s the tough part.

John:

That kind of resilience is exactly what startup founders need. They have got to figure out a way to get in front of the investors through warm intros or whatever it takes. One investor said, “If you can’t figure out a way to get to me, you probably can’t figure out a way to get to your customers.” Part of that test is, “Oh, are you smart enough and resilient enough to find me, to get to me?” Your examples here are spot on.

The other thing that’s so great that you write about here is, once you get a response, don’t let go. Instant follow-up is everything. You cannot let that die down because they’ll forget you in ten minutes.

Gillian:

They’ll forget you, yes. Exactly. Think about how many emails are coming into their inbox. Basically, if you see a sign of life, grab a hold of it and keep the balling rolling in the direction you want it to go in so, “Okay, can I meet with you,” or this or that, whatever it is you’re after. I used to send people a copy of my first book. I’d always try to get as personal as I could get the assistant’s name, that kind of thing. Try to form a connection so that at least when your package comes to the office it might say, “To-“, whoever you’re after, “To the bigwig care of-,” and give the specific assistant’s name. At least you know that assistant will get it, and open it, and you’ve emailed with that person. You have to do whatever you can do to get yourself noticed or to not be shuffled to the bottom of a huge pile.

John:

Also, you talk about, the more human you are, the harder it is for them to say ‘no’. That personal touch that you just described is a great example of that.

Gillian:

Yes, yes. Definitely try to form a connection with whoever you can form one with, whether it’s an assistant, or a manager, or a publicist, or whatever.

John:

That’s really what it’s all about, especially in the world of startup founders. Founders need to have a connection with investors because, at the end of the day, when everything else is what it needs to be … You know your numbers, you have a great product, you have proof of content, all that good stuff, they’re going to invest in people they like and know. You’ve got to make sure that you’re putting your best foot forward even in how you approach to get the meeting. If their assistant says, “Oh, this guy’s a nightmare,” then the person’s like, “Oh, then if we invest in them, they’re going to be a nightmare to work with.”

Gillian:

Yes. You have to be the kind of person that you are to work with all around. Don’t be rude to anyone, always be pleasant and nice. A little anecdote on being a real person when you can. I get a lot of requests on LinkedIn and I don’t accept any of them from people who don’t put a picture up. I think, “You know what,” it’s just a widget to me. If they’re not putting a photo up, they might have something to hide or maybe … For all I know, the people with photos, it’s a fake photo, but I know that they’re at least holding themselves out there.

John:

I love that because one of the investors I interviewed said, “Make sure you tell your clients to make sure they’re LinkedIn profile represents them and their brand.” You did such a great job of that on your LinkedIn profile where you have the actual book as your title, as your background picture. It’s not just your profile picture, step it up, people, have some branding going on, on your LinkedIn profile so that when people click on it, especially if you want to connect there, that they know what you stand for.

Gillian:

Yes. People do judge books by their cover.

John:

I’m sure there’s a story there about working with … Were there other titles before Getting There? Or were there other choices of colors that you had to decide?

Gillian:

I liked Getting There, that was basically … Actually, at one point it was called The Crooked Path because most people don’t have a smooth, steady ascent to the top. Most people have some kind of failures or obstacles they have to overcome. Then that title, The Crooked Path, sounded like it couldn’t be about something illegal, the word, ‘Crooked’. Then it got to be The Jagged Path, but I liked Getting There.

John:

I like it too. I also love hearing the back story and that’s what you are able to get so many of these people in your book to open up about the back story. In fact, I remember Anderson Cooper talking about overcoming his fear of taking the first step and that it’s not a linear straight up path to success. You look at his life and you look at his connections and his background and his career and you assume, “What did he have to be afraid of?” Everyone has fears.

Gillian:

That’s what was interesting. When I first started doing the book, I thought that I had to find highly successful people who had a good story. Then I soon realized that all I had to do was go for highly successful people because, basically, everybody has a good story. The trick was to get people to be open and talk about it. The way I did that is that I told everybody to just talk and that I would absolutely send them their essays before publishing and if they wanted to change anything or cut, they could. Almost no one changed … People changed like, “Oh, my daughter, Sarah with an H, not just an A, or whatever. I had a really good response from the essays.

John:

I love it. One of the people you interviewed, of course, Matthew Weiner, the founder, the co-creator, or the creator of Mad Men, one of my favorite shows. He talked about how a lot of artists don’t like, they hide the brush strokes. They want to make it all seem so easy. It’s like, “Oh,” but for you, you were willing to not hide your brush strokes and say, “You know, I had other titles before I got to Getting There. There’s a process. The end result is not always the first thing. In the founding world of startups, it’s called ‘pivoting’. You keep changing it until you get it just right. Never assume that you’re going to not have to keep evolving the idea, in evolving your pitch.

Gillian:

It took Matthew Weiner seven years to get his show Mad Men on air. That’s the time from when the script was finished until finally somebody wanted to put it on air. During that seven years, it was being rejected all over Hollywood. He really has an incredible story and he really persevered. One of the things that he says, that I love, which might be applicable, to this audience is that he says that, “When you get rejected, you should register the fact that the person doesn’t want whatever you’re pitching, but don’t always listen to the reason why.”

He says that a lot of times people would give capricious justification to stop from hurting your feelings. If you go around altering your work, or your company, whatever it is, for every rejection, you’re going to be running around trying to please an imaginary audience. People would say to him, “Yes, I like this. If only Mad Men wasn’t a period piece,” or, “If only it wasn’t-” this, or, “If only,” that, or whatever. He really stuck to his guns because he really believed in his original vision and it ended up paying off.

John:

I love that. We’re going to tweet that out. When it comes to rejection, don’t always listen to the reason why. Mathew Weiner took seven years before he got his show done and you took five years to get your book done so there’s some similarities of perseverance in action, that’s for sure.

One of the things I love about what Kathy Ireland said to you was a lesson she learned from her father, and having a paper route myself when I was a little boy, she said her Dad said, “You know, people expect the paper to be on the driveway. You over deliver and put it on their front porch.” What a great life lesson.

Gillian:

She has an incredible work ethic. She’s another one who is like Anderson Cooper. People like to look at her also and see how gorgeous she is and that she was a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model and they like to assume that she probably had everything pretty easy. She now runs a two billion dollar business called Kathy Ireland Worldwide and she brands over fifteen thousand products. She failed for years at starting her own brand. It wasn’t easy. She was finally able to launch her own brand with, of all things, a line of socks.

The way that that came about is that she was pregnant and she was offered the big opportunity to model a pair of socks which was not quite what she was hoping for after being on the cover of Sports Illustrated. She said to the guy, “I’ll do it if I can partner with you. If it can be Kathy Ireland socks and we go into business together.” That’s how she started her two billion dollar business. Even once it started, it wasn’t easy. Kathy, in her Getting There essay talks about almost going bankrupt and how she would have to sleep in airports to save money. It was not easy for her.

John:

I love that. Thank you for sharing that, Gillian, because I think everyone assumes supermodel, gazillions of millions of dollars. You don’t need to worry about saving money. That’s great.

Let me ask you about Graydon Carter. Having worked at Conde Nast myself, was it at all intimidating interviewing someone who’s such a great editor?

Gillian:

Totally. It was also intimidating interviewing Anderson Cooper because that’s what he does. I had to figure that my questions are as good as anyone else’s and I’m a good representation of the average Joe. If I’m curious about this, my readers will be too. Basically, I wrote it up, the essay, and I gave it to him and he had very few changes. I guess I’m flattered.

John:

That’s a huge compliment because I know he’s known for circling a lot of things with a red pen, like back in school.

Gillian:

I also photographed everybody, the book has a portrait of each person. That was also intimidating because Vanity Fair is known for its amazing portraits.

John:

Annie Leibovitz, yes.

Gillian:

I was going up against someone who works with Annie Leibovitz every day. He’s happy with his portrait and so am I.

John:

I love what you said to Warren Buffet when he said, “Look, you can’t take my picture,” and you’re like, “It won’t cut into our ten minutes of time even if I have to take a picture of you running away from me.”

Gillian:

I had a ten-minute slot with him. To take someone’s portrait and interview them in ten minutes is really a tall order. I knew that to have him in the book, I had to keep up the formula which was having a portrait of each person along with their interview. I figured, even if it’s one of him pushing me out his door, I’m going to get one.

John:

Do you notice a similarity between Laird Hamilton, obviously an incredible athlete, John Paul DeJoria, incredible entrepreneur who started that wonderful John Paul Mitchell hair care. Are there similarities between successful entrepreneurs, successful athletes that you can see through their story lines from the interviews?

Gillian:

I think that the most common thread between all of the subjects is resilience and determination. It goes back to what we talked about, what I had to channel when I was trying to get people to participate in the book, nothing is easy. Nothing worth doing is easy. In order to do something and do it well, and do it better than others, you have to really be determined and resilient. You’re going to get knocked down, and knocked down, and knocked down, but everybody in my book found a way to keep getting up after they got knocked down. That’s Laird Hamilton, that’s John Paul DeJoria, that’s … You name it. Everybody has been rejected and had failures and obstacles, but they didn’t let it deter them.

John:

That goes back to the rejections that you experienced which is, you kept saying to yourself, “I am passionate about this. What I have to ask these people is just as valuable as any other person interviewing them.” Your confidence level has to be there so you’re not taking rejection personally and that you have a reason to pick yourself back up. Is that a good summary of what you learned and what you did?

Gillian:

Definitely, definitely. Kathy Ireland actually has a quote in her essay that I love and she says, “If you never fail, it means you’re not trying hard enough.” I think that if you can look at failure that way instead of taking it personally and letting it deflate you, if you fail and the next time you do it, you say, “Okay. This means I’m doing my job. This means I’m doing what I’m supposed to do. I’m trying hard and I’m going to get back up and get back out there, try the same thing, try something different, learn from this mistake, whatever it is.” I think you’re really ahead of the pack if you can look at it that way. Remember that quote. “If you never fail, it means you’re not trying hard enough.”

John:

That’s good feedback. What kinds of challenges did Frank Gehry have because he’s just so known now for incredible architecture like the Disney Hall here in Los Angeles. You can’t imagine that anybody would ever reject him, but I’m sure he wasn’t always as successful as he is now.

Gillian:

Absolutely not. He does things a little differently than other people do. He doesn’t fit into a certain mold of, especially when he started out and his buildings were different. He wasn’t doing what people thought architects should be doing. On account of that, a lot of his colleagues rejected him and made fun of his work. He fell in with artists because artists didn’t mind people who did things differently. They embraced that. He had a really tough time. For years he was on the verge of bankruptcy. Finally things hit. He has a great story. You’ll enjoy his essay.

John:

Hard to imagine that somebody like Kathy Ireland or Frank Gehry, both facing bankruptcy. Talk about having to pick yourself up. It’s an interesting similar thread there. Talking about Frank finding comfort in the family of artists, you were also able to get Jeff Koons which is, again, really someone who has this distinct unique look to his art. It’s not for everybody, but he must have held on to his vision. Do you have anything you can share with us about that essay?

Gillian:

You know what I love? First of all, when he was younger, he worked at the Museum of Modern Art in New York selling tickets. He loved art and loved being around art. Basically, the way he got to where he is is that he just never said ‘no’ to an opportunity to share his work in any way. If someone said, “Do you want-” he said ‘yes’ before they finished their sentence if it was anything. I think eventually if you’re out there enough and you’ve got some talent, you’ll be noticed.

John:

That’s a great lesson.

Gillian:

I love that. I love his attitude.

John:

This has been an incredible interview. Thank you for taking so much in depth of how you got these amazing people and what you learned from them. It’s certainly incredible information that our listeners can take with them about, “If you get rejected, don’t listen to the reason why,” and, “Change your ideas all the time,” “Resilience and determination,” and, “If you never fail, it means you’re not trying hard enough.” Those are such valuable life lessons, especially for iconic people who we look at and assume, “I don’t know if I’ll ever get to be as successful as they are,” but you figured out a way to not only show us how to get there, but how you got there, and that is just as valuable. Thank you so much, Gillian.

Gillian:

Thank you. Thank you.

John:

Before I let you go, I want to see, how can people … Obviously, we’re going to put your book in the show notes for people to click and buy it. They should definitely check out your LinkedIn blogs. Is there any other way for people to follow you on social media or anything like that?

Gillian:

Facebook, I’m on Facebook. You could give my email address, if you want. It’s [email protected], if anyone wants to contact me about anything. I have that one for book stuff.

John:

And your Twitter is?

Gillian:

Gillianzoesegal.

John:

That’s easy enough, isn’t it?

Are there any other books that you recommend that inspired you about perseverance and resilience that you want to recommend over and above Getting There?

 

Gillian:

I’ll go recommend Dorie’s book, Stand Out.

John:

Excellent choice. We’ll put that in the show notes of your episode as well. Thanks again. Be sure, everyone, to get this book. If you want to know how to get there including how to get in front of the right investors, Getting There is a great road map to do it.

Gillian:

Thank you.

John:

Okay, Bye.

 

TSP042 | Jason Best – Transcription

Posted by John Livesay in Uncategorized | 0 comments

John:

Welcome to “The Successful Pitch” podcast. Today’s guest is Jason Best. He’s the author of “Crowdfund Investing for Dummies,” but Jason is no dummy, that’s for sure. He is the Entrepreneur-in-Residence at UC Berkeley. He tells us a story about going to the White House back in 2012, and being at the Rose Garden ceremony when President Obama signed into law, the new changes that allow crowdfunding to be very different, and allow people to invest where it’s been like that for 78 years, and he had to overcome 78 years of, “It’s always been done this way. You can’t possibly change the law. You’re crazy.” Of course, he didn’t give up. It took him over a year with some other people to make this happen, but he did it. He said, “Crowdfunding is a new way to do a difficult thing.” I think you’re really going to enjoy listening to Jason’s passion and insights on crowdfunding around the world.

Are you a founder struggling with your investor pitch? Do you need warm introductions to the right investors to get your startup funded? Do you need a funding roadmap to get you there fast? All of this and more can be found in Crack The Funding Code. Judy Robinett, bestselling author of How to be a Power Connector, and on the board of Illuminate Ventures invite you to our free Crack the Funding Code webinar. Simply go to JudyRobinett.com and click on the webinar tab to see how to tap into our network of investors around the world. There’s a link in the show notes as well. You’re only one click away from getting funded fast!

Hi, and welcome to “The Successful Pitch,” podcast. Today’s guest is Jason Best, and he has that last name for a reason, ladies and gentleman. He is the general partner at Crowd Capital Venture Fund, he has global experience. He literally works with the World Bank, and he’s one of the 3 people that’s responsible for creating the crowdfund investment framework. He’s also the Entrepreneur-in-Residence at UC Berkeley, for entrepreneurship and technology. His background prior to crowdfunding is building and leading SASS companies. He has been covered and visited the White House. I’m not going to talk about his background anymore. I’m just going to get him right on the show. Jason, Welcome.

Jason:

Hey. Thank you so much for having me today.

John:

Jason, I always like to ask our guests to tell us, how did you get to be such an expert in crowdfunding and entrepreneurship? Can you take us back to what your early background was? I know you worked for some companies and have some great track records, but how did you get so passionate and become an expert in crowdfunding?

Jason:

Well, first, thanks for having me on the show. It’s great to be here, and I guess my passion for entrepreneurship really was somewhat accidental in the beginning. I was working for different companies in the healthcare and consulting spaces, and then in 1998, sort of when the internet was shiny and new, some friends of mine … I was living on the East Coast, and some friends of mine told me, “Hey, look. You’ve got to get out here. Move out to the West Coast and figure out this internet thing. It’s really awesome.” It was one of those moments where, I think one of the biggest things in my life that I’ve learned is the power of saying “yes.”

The power of saying “yes” is so important because there have been so many times in my life where I could have said “yes,” or could have “no,” and saying “yes” has almost allows brought with it good things. Sometimes, probably a third or a half of the time, it’s unintended good consequences, but it’s interesting. I said “yes” to the opportunity, I moved out to the West Coast with no job, settled in San Francisco and over the course of a few weeks, found a job and began building a career in tech startups in the healthcare space. I built some experience in that model, was very fortunate to be a part of a couple of successful healthcare technology companies that were venture-backed and that had different types of exits, whether they were acquisition, or merger, or one went public, and so it just had a chance to see, from the very beginning of how to start a business, working with the founders of these companies, all the way through kind of the exit of those companies.

In August of 2010, I was at a friends wedding and I was talking with another friend of mine who had been a successful entrepreneur, as well, about the fact that this was back during the financial crisis, and small businesses couldn’t get money, and neither could many successful entrepreneurs. So, we talked about the fact that, “Look, if you give away money on Kickstarter, if you can lend money to entrepreneurs in the developing world through Kiva, why can’t I, as a regular American, invest in businesses that I use every day, or entrepreneurs that I believe in?” That was sort of the jumping off point for us to say, “How can we change these 80-year securities laws?” They were written back when most people did not have a landline telephone in their homes …

John:

Wow!

Jason:

… To reflect how we live our lives today. I mean, we live our lives online, with mobile devices, and Twitter, and LinkedIn, and Facebook. We also, if you look at the rest of our lives, social media and the web has really revolutionized almost every part of our lives, and even every part of the financial system, except for the private capital markets, for the way, private equity, venture capital, angel investing, and now crowdfunding. Really, it was about, how can we open up these markets to use these new tools to make it more efficient, more effective for entrepreneurs to raise money? That’s when we started our campaign.

We wrote our framework originally to change the laws and look, everybody told us we were crazy. Everybody told us we were wasting our time because it was never going to change, but we had equal parts of naivety, and I guess, just entrepreneurial stupidity to just keep trying, and just to keep working on it. Over the course of 460 days, we took our kind of framework from an idea to being in the Rose Garden of the White House, to watching President Obama signing the Jobs Act into law.

John:

What a thrill. I mean, congratulations, and thank you on behalf of all the entrepreneurs out there for your tenacity, your focus, your willingness to fight City Hall, if you will. I mean, when you have been told that something has been like this for 78 years, you’re crazy to try and change it, there was something inside you that has to be inside all successful entrepreneurs that didn’t take, “No, this is impossible,” for granted. I really want to dive into that a little bit. Also, we’re going to tweet out the power of saying “Yes.” I mean, what you did reminds me of people coming to San Francisco for the gold rush, right? I mean, they said, “This is where the opportunity is. I’m going.” You did the same thing. Take us back to that moment, because I love to hear what it felt like to stand in the Rose Garden, because I think it’s so important to have these moments of certainty, when you realize, “Wow. I didn’t give up and look where I am now,” and what does it feel like?

Because if you can share what it felt like to stand in the Rose Garden, after 460 days of perseverance, I can only imagine that that will give our readers a sense of what it’s like to stand in that Rose Garden at the White House and watch the President signing something into legislation that’s going to affect all kinds of people. I mean, the impact that you had, and I think that’s what a lot of entrepreneurs do, is they want to make a dent in the world, and make an impact. Do you mind just describing what the day was like and what it felt like to stand there?

Jason:

I tell you, it was one of the most surreal experiences of my life, because especially since, when the law passed, it had passed the house, it went to the senate, we went to the senate to actually watch the senate pass the bill, as well, and because of procedural maneuvering, basically we were told that it was going to pass that day, so we went to watch it pass, and because of procedural maneuvering in the senate, it didn’t. It didn’t pass. All of a sudden, the bill just got locked up, and we were afraid. “Oh, my gosh. Is this going to mean that the bill’s not going to pass and all this work’s going to die right here?” So, there was about 24 hours where we were unsure, this could have died. It was a very, very low point, of thinking we made it all this way, against all these odds, and it was out of our control at that point, because it was really up to the White House and the senate what was going to happen at that point.

After a lot of meetings, and conversations amongst the people who get to make those decisions, the next day it passed. It passed with over 75% of the senate voting “yes,” and so that moment, going from the depths of despair to this moment of, “Oh, my gosh, it passed,” was amazing. Receiving the invitation to the White House was another very surreal moment. It was just kind of, and then to actually be that day where you walk up to the gate, they hand over your pass and then you go through four layers of security, including walking by these dogs that are smelling you for explosives and everything else.

John:

Wow.

Jason:

Then, you’re in, you walk through the White House, and then you walk out into the Rose Garden, and it’s just this place where there’s been so much history. They signed a Middle East Peace Accords there, they’ve had all sorts of dignitaries there. You’re literally just a few feet away. You can see in the windows of the Oval Office, and you can see the President sort of walking around the Oval Office prior to him coming out. It was an incredible moment. It’s a beautiful place. It was an incredibly sunny, warm day. There were only about 100 guests invited, and from the crowdfunding industry, in total there were, I think, 11 of us. It was an incredible thrill, because there were different parts of the Jobs Act, so different people involved in different parts were invited. It was a great honor to be among such a small number of people from the industry who were invited to join, kind of recognizing our efforts. It was just one of those moments that I’ll never forget.

John:

I’ll bet. Thank you so much. That’s one of my favorite stories I’ve ever heard. You did such a great job that riding that roller coaster from the depths of despair when you don’t think it’s going to pass, to it’s passing, and then being invited, and then going through all that security. I mean, I felt like I was there with you. That’s what good storytelling is, and when someone makes a good pitch, that’s a classic example of bringing something to life, so thank you for that, Jason.

Jason:

Sure.

John:

What has changed since this is now in effect from 2012 to 2015? Can you tell us what’s the impact of that being signed now? What’s the … There’s a new law in existence now, over 3 years. I’m sure there’s a lot of things you can point to that because of this now being signed into legislation, people are able to?

Jason:

There’s kind of several layers to it. I’ll try to go through them quickly. There’s three provisions in the Jobs Acts that affect how entrepreneurs can increase their access to capital. The first one that went into effect almost 2 years ago, because basically, the law went into effect and then it had to go to the SEC, and then the SEC has to then write the exact rules and regulations, so that takes time. Then, they’ve been rolling those regulations out over the last 3 years. In the US, first, about 2 years ago, accredited investors, or individuals with more than a million dollars of liquid net worth were able to being investing through crowdfunding online, and that has now funded well in excess of a billion dollars worth of startups and small businesses have now been funded through that channel in the United States.

John:

Wow. Let’s just take a second on that. Congratulations. I mean, I wasn’t expecting that to be that big in that short amount of time. That’s an amazing accomplishment in 3 years. A billion dollars, that could never have been …

Jason:

Well, it’s the accomplishment of a lot of entrepreneurs who have worked really hard to raise that money. It’s a testament to the fact, because people, a lot of times people say, “It’s too hard to do this. You can’t raise money online. People aren’t going to invest in strangers. People aren’t going to do these things.” There’s a lot of things we’ve learned. There were a lot of naysayers all with this process, even after the bill passed, saying how it wouldn’t work and it couldn’t work. The fascinating thing I’ve learned is if you give an entrepreneur an opportunity to raise money for their businesses, they will do what is required to raise that money, and I think it’s also really important for your listeners to know that crowdfunding is, I always say, raising money for business is always difficult. Crowdfunding is not an easy way to raise money, it’s just a new way to do a difficult thing.

John:

Oh, I like that. We’re going to tweet that out. “A new way to do a difficult thing.” To me, it seems like what you have been able to accomplish with your other people that you did this with, with this new law is you laid down the railroad tracks where there were no railroad tracks, and now it’s up to people to get on a train and take the ride, but they couldn’t take the ride if the railroad tracks weren’t there. Is that a good analogy?

Jason:

I think that’s a good analogy.

John:

Okay, great.

Jason:

I do. I think that, and the work that we’ve done, we’ve now worked in 35 countries around the world around these issues around entrepreneurship and providing access to capital. The UK and Australia were the first 2 countries to really make this possible. The US followed behind, and it’s really the UK and the US leadership on the issue, which is sort of, and the economic needs of different countries, who need to stimulate entrepreneurship and innovation and stimulation job creation are recognizing the fact now that these sorts of laws must be enacted. We’ve had the privilege of working with different securities regulators, and different government ministries and organizations on trying to think about how do you create the right regulation, and the ecosystem to enable these sorts of crowdfunding opportunities to exist in other countries.

John:

You know, it’s so interesting to me that the UK was a little bit ahead of us, and I heard on one of your Bloomberg interviews that you said that the UK is actually a little bit more sophisticated than the US, and I think people think Silicon Valley’s the heart of everything in the world when it comes to startups, and being ahead of the game. What is it about the UK that makes them slightly more sophisticated or substantially more sophisticated, I’m not sure, than the US, when it comes to crowdfunding?

Jason:

It comes down to the regulators attitude about it. The regulators in the UK, so the UK industry went to the regulators and said, “Here’s what we want to do. Here’s how we want to do it. Can we? And the regulators worked with them over a period of time, they built trust, and they said, “Yes, let’s do this, but you have to keep us in the loop. We have to know what’s going on, and if things go wrong, then we’re going to shut it all down.” They took a “can do” attitude and they took a very proactive attitude, the regulator did, in allowing this to take place. But in the US, the SEC was very clear that absolutely nothing could take place until after they had completed all of their rulemaking, and there was absolutely zero desire on their part to enable any sort of testing or piloting of these programs. The other thing that’s really made the UK more sophisticated, and there’s certainly ample opportunity for the United States to join this sort of direction, they’ve created tax incentives for individuals to invest in startups and small businesses, very substantial tax incentives, like if you have gains on your investments in small businesses or startups are tax free. You can write off your tax losses for investments.

John:

It really reduces the risk, doesn’t it? That’s what I’ve understood.

Jason:

It reduces the risk, and it also, it doesn’t eliminate you losing the money, it just says that the government is not going to hit you over the head. It’s going to allow you to recognize that loss in a substantial way. Also, just enabling the fact that the UK treasury department has a study that came out in July that said that 70% of small businesses that raise capital and crowdfunding increase their sales. Why? Because when you turn your customers into investors, they become your best brand advocates.

John:

That’s so great. “Turn your customers into your brand advocates,” right?

Jason:

Right. Then, also they said that 60% of those businesses added employees, so it absolutely does create jobs in the country.

John:

Yes. Well, there’s so many things that I want to ask you about. I want to have you talk to us, you’re involved with 3 wonderful things. You’re the co-founder of the UC Berkeley program on innovation, you’re general partner at this Crowd Capital Venture Fund, which I’m guessing actually invests in startups, and then finally, you’re a venture partner at Vector Ventures, which is based in Hong Kong. I know you’re really involved. You’ve been to Malaysia and everything else around what’s going on around the world. Pick one of those 3 things and let’s take a little dive into one of those.

Jason:

Sure. The opportunity with Crowd Capital Ventures is really an opportunity for us to invest in what we call the “ecosystem of crowdfunding.” We’re just making investments in the space that really trying to foster 1 of 5 sectors in the crowdfunding ecosystem. It’s not us investing in businesses that are raising money on crowdfunding platforms. It’s us investing in the infrastructure that makes crowdfunding work.

John:

Ah, the railroad tracks again.

Jason:

Yeah, the railroad tracks again, absolutely. Number 1, the crowdfunding platforms, and the secondary markets. Sector 2 are trust and transparency tools, so that more people can engage in the market. Sector 3 is data and analytics companies, so they can turn all this mountains of data into actionable information on these platforms. Sector 4, the money transfer, and this is where the block chain is going to intersect with crowdfunding. How do you move money between individuals and across borders? Then, the 5th is the white space.

John:

Let me just ask about the block chain a little bit. Is that Bitcoin and all that kind of stuff a little bit?

Jason:

Exactly. It’s how do virtual currencies like Bitcoin, interact with crowdfunding? How do you use those sorts of things in raising capital, and moving money in a lower friction way? How do you use the block chain to enable more trust between two parties who don’t know each other?

John:

Right, and then the 5th one was white space, you said?

Jason:

White space, which is just, I mean there’s is much innovation that has occurred in different industries that we never dreamed up until they were possible. You know what I mean? For example, if someone had told you 10 years ago that you were going to use a device called a smartphone to call a stranger to come pick you up in their car, take you across town, and then it was going to be charged automatically to your credit card, I mean, I would have said you’re crazy.

John:

Or, Airbnb. That’s the one that most say, “That sounds insane. I’m not letting strangers in my home.”

Jason:

Right, and now it’s a multi-billion dollar business. Those are the type of white space opportunities that will exist in this market, as well.

John:

Nice. All right, so what’s going on with … You’re such an expert in this, Hong Kong and Malaysia, and China, and how can startups learn from that, and do those international companies, whether it’s the UK or Hong Kong, do they ever invest in crowdfunding things going on outside of their country, or is it strictly pretty much local?

Jason:

That’s a great question. I think that there’s a couple of things to think about that. What’s happening in Asia, there’s a lot of movement across Asia into enabling crowdfunding. In China, in mainland China, crowdfunding both on the debt and equity side, so when we talk about crowdfunding, we talk about equity crowdfunding, or exchanging shares for capital, as well on the debt side, I see people call that peer to business lending, or peer to peer lending. That’s what we call debt-based crowdfunding. Both of those markets in China have exploded over the last 3 years, even though there’s no regulation around either of those markets yet, in China. The government says it intends to regulate the market in 2016, but the markets are multi-billion dollar markets already today. Korea has, earlier this year, legalized equity crowdfunding. We have Malaysia that has already legalized equity crowdfunding and that will launch at the end of this year.

Singapore is studying how to launch equity crowdfunding by the end of the year. Thailand will launch equity crowdfunding by the end of the year. Other countries are starting, as well. Hong Kong is moving fairly slowly compared to its neighbors. It seems to be moving very, very slowly on this, and probably will be one of the last markets in Asia to enable equity and debt crowdfunding, but certainly others in the region are moving quickly. There’s a lot of activity because the need for job creation, the need for entrepreneurship development, innovation development, is very high in that region.

John:

Do they only invest, like let’s say Malaysia, those crowdfunding, do they only fund founders that are based in Malaysia, or are there opportunities for other people in other countries to get access to that?

Jason:

I guess I’d say I’ve got a couple of answers to that question. Primarily, people tend to fund things in their own country, and the other thing that the statistics are telling us so far is that most of the investors, the Kickstarter and other product pre-purchase crowdfunding, people are much more willing take a risk on a $75 or a $100 item that they’re pre-purchasing. Obviously making a $5000 or $10,000 investment is a very different mix of decisions. What we’re finding is that early on, and I like to say we’re sort of at page 60 of a 1000 page novel when it comes to this market, so we’re still very early on. Then, people are investing in businesses of someone that they know, or someone who they know they know. Like, first or second degree LinkedIn connections. That’s really where primarily the investors are coming from today.

What we need are these trust and transparency tools that I talked about before that will allow people who might be your third degree LinkedIn connections, or unaffiliated to you, gain enough confidence to make those sorts of investments at distance. I would say that there is capital from other countries that are looking for investments in the US, however, those investments tend to be large companies, brand names, established organizations, rather than startups. I think that primarily, the focus really should be for startups here in the US to be looking for investors here in the US.

John:

Right. What’s interesting is, I love this analogy you gave that we’re early on, we’re on page 60 of 1000 page novel, I believe you said?

Jason:

uh-huh (affirmative)

John:

That’s a great example for everybody listening of what great storytelling is. Instead of just staying we’re early on, you created an image, so instantly we can see a book that’s 1000 pages, and we’re only on page 60. That resonates. That’s what you do when you make a successful pitch, and I think that’s a great example. I want to thank you for that, because it comes to you somewhat naturally, I’m guessing, but it’s not a skill that everybody has, and it’s part of the reason you were able to get this incredible feat done that has been undoing something that’s stayed the same for 78 years. It’s that kind of storytelling, people, that allows people to see your vision and see what’s possible before it happens.

Do you see, as we get further in the book, to keep that analogy going a little bit, like let’s say we’re on page, I don’t know, 500, that eventually down the road, let’s say someone’s been really successful here, and they want to take their idea to another country. Like, for example, Uber has certainly grown globally really fast. Do you see the day that when they want to open in Hong Kong that some Hong Kong crowdfunding would be funding Uber because it’s been proven in the US?

Jason:

Yes. I think that what we’ll see, broadly speaking, I think in the next 5 to 7 years, we won’t talk about crowdfunding anymore. It’s just going to be funding. It’s just going to be the way businesses are funded, because what we’re also seeing is the hybridization of funding. By that I mean, entrepreneurs who are using sites like Kickstarter or product pre-sale websites as a way to prove that they have a customer for their business, for their product. Then, with that proof of, “I’ve got 500 customers,” the conversation they have with angel investors is very different than if they go to an angel with a prototype, because they’ve already got customers. “People paid me money for this.” It gives you significantly more power in that conversation that you had before. Then, what we’re seeing sometimes is angel investors might say, “Look, we’ll match whatever you’re able to raise through an equity crowdfunding website,” so there’s an ability for angels and the “crowd,” today, that’s the accredited investor crowd, to be able to make this happen.

Another way that this hybridization of funding is taking place is one of the challenges with angel investors was angel investors acting alone. It’s a very difficult model, that’s why angel groups were formed. One of the challenges with angel groups is the friction is very high in actually completing a transaction. I’ve got to schedule a dinner, I’ve got to show up, I’ve got to listen to 3 entrepreneurs, I’ve got to get some emails back and forth, look at some documents, and sign a paper, and wire a check, and it’s just very, very, high friction. What we’re seeing are angel groups are beginning to use this technology of online funding in a private way, or even publicly, to be able to fund deals faster. It just saves a lot of time for the entrepreneurs, and it saves a lot of time for the investors. The nice thing about these platforms is it also provides a lower point of entry.

Typically in the US, angel groups require you to write a check of 25,000 or $50,000 as a minimum to make an “angel investment.” If you’re new to this world, even if you have a lot of money, that may seem a little steep as an experiment, but if you’re able to use a crowdfunding site, crowdfund investing site, like OfferBoard or Seedinvest or CrowdFunder or others, you’re able to say, “Oh, I’m going to go and look at” … “Maybe I’ll just make a $5000 investment, or $10,000 investment.” That allows me to try this out at a lower price point, gain experience, and then move up to more traditional sizes of angel check writing.

John:

I love that. You know, once you have that social proof, that hybrid you were describing, the matching, if angel’s are going to feel a lot more comfortable matching if they can see a lot of other people through crowdfunding coming in, and getting to 50,000 then their 50,000 doesn’t feel as risky because even if it’s 10 people putting 5000 in, it’s still 10 other people who have validated this and think it’s a good use of their money.

Jason:

Yeah. I mean, what we’ve seen over and over again is people talk about the fear of fraud, and look, fraud’s a very real thing and we have to do everything we possibly can to guard against it, but when we look at the data of the amount of fraud that’s taken place through crowdfunding, it’s an incredibly, incredibly small number. One study from the Wharton Business School found that they looked at all the Kickstarter campaigns that have happened, and there’s now been over 85,000 of them, and there has been less than one-tenth of 1% of those campaigns that were proven to be fraudulent. I’m going to say that again. Less than one-tenth of 1%.

John:

That’s pretty low risk.

Jason:

It’s a tiny, tiny number.

John:

Yeah, that’s great. Well, before I let you go, I want to ask you about your book, “Crowdfund Investing for Dummies.” What a great …

Jason:

Our friends like to joke that it’s really “Crowdfund Investing by Dummies.” Should have been the title.

John:

Nice friends.

Jason:

We wrote the book, Wiley, the publisher of the “For Dummies” series came to us, and after the passage of the bill and just thought it’d be an interesting topic for entrepreneurs, and we were thrilled to be asked, and so we wrote the book, and it’s been out now for a while. It’s available on Amazon, electronically, and also in physical form, and other booksellers, as well. What it provides is some very tactical, practical suggestions about how entrepreneurs should be thinking about raising money, and they’re are also some sections on the book for investors, for people who are considering investing through this new mechanism, because it’s important for investors to know that anytime you invest in a startup or a small business, it’s a high-risk investment, and you should only put a very small portion of your capital to work through that particular asset class. It’s a portfolio play, and you want to spread your risk among a lot of different types of assets.

John:

That’s great. We’ll definitely put the link in the show notes for people to click and buy it right away, because anything you write I’m sure is worth the investment. Are there any other books, Jason, that you really like to have founder buy, either about life or business?

Jason:

Well, I mean, I think one of the most important books that I’ve read in the last year has been a book by Judy Robinett about the power of connecting, and just the importance of this concept of networking kind of has an “ick” factor about it. It sounds very mechanical, and it sounds something that’s not authentic. I think one of the things about Judy Robinett’s book is it really takes the “ick” out of networking, and it really is an important book for every entrepreneur to read, because it talks about how you can utilize your network, connect authentically, deliver value to your network, and then receive value in return. I just think that it’s a fantastic book.

John:

It is. It’s called “How to Be a Power Connector.” I’ve had the privilege of having Judy on the show, and we are happy to promote her book again. It’s a fantastic book. She works with founders on how to get funded with her “Crack the Funding Code” program. There’s lots of valuable information around Judy Robinett, her book, “How to Be a Power Connector.” We’ll put that link in the show notes, as well. Jason, how do people follow you on social media? What’s the best way to keep track of your latest interviews, and blogs, et cetera?

Jason:

Sure. My Twitter is crowdcapadvisor, @crowdcapadvisor. Then, our website is TheCCAGroup.com. Both of those have a lot of resources available from them, and happy to stay connected both ways.

John:

Fantastic. Jason, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show. Thanks for sharing that amazing story about being in the Rose Garden, and congratulations. I know that we’re only on page 60 of our 1000 page book, so I can’t wait to see what next chapters bring, and what a great impact you make on the world.

Jason:

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.

John:

All right, great. Bye. Thanks for listening to “The Successful Pitch” podcast. If you like the show, please go to iTunes and write a review, and encourage your friends to write reviews, too. It really helps to get the word out. People say that the longest distance is between someone’s mouth and their wallet. People can tell you they’re going to invest, but when it comes time to write the check, they don’t do it. How do you get people to say “yes” and then follow through? Visualize yourself on the left side of a river bank, and you have to cross the river, and on the other side of the river is where the funding happens. First, you make up your idea, then you make it real, then you make it reoccur. Once you start dipping your toe into the water to get to funding, that’s where I can help.

I get you across that river faster than you would on your own, with a lot less frustration than you will get when you hear a bunch of “no’s,” and you don’t know why. If you want some help getting funded faster with less frustration, go to my free funding webinar, SellingSecretsForFunding.com/webinar, sign up and get in-depth information on how you can get funded fast. Thanks.