Hunting Discomfort With Sterling Hawkins

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TSP Sterling Hawkins | Hunting Discomfort

 

Getting results comes down to pushing past your comfort zone and limiting beliefs. That is what today’s guest, Sterling Hawkins, the CEO and Founder of the Sterling Hawkins Group, firmly believes. From a multi-billion-dollar startup to collapse and to come back to launch, invest in, and grow over 50 companies, Sterling takes that experience to work with C-level teams from some of the largest organizations on the planet and speaks on stages around the world. Sterling is out to break the status quo. He believes that we can all unlock the incredible potential within ourselves, and he’s on a mission to support people, businesses, and communities to realize that potential regardless of the circumstances. Today, he talks about how important it is to hunt discomfort and how, when you feel seen and heard, your loneliness goes down, and your productivity goes up.

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Hunting Discomfort With Sterling Hawkins

Our guest is Sterling Hawkins, the author of Hunting Discomfort. We’ve talked about how important it is to hunt discomfort, not just tolerate it, and how when you feel seen and heard, your loneliness goes down, and your productivity goes up. Enjoy the episode.

In this episode, our guest is a repeat guest, which I don’t have many of those, but when someone says stand out and has such amazing new content as Sterling Hawkins does, it’s always a treat to have him back. In case you don’t remember, Sterling is out to break the status quo. He believes that we can all unlock the incredible potential within ourselves.

He’s on a mission to support people, businesses, and communities to realize that potential, regardless of the circumstances. He’s got this amazing story from a multimillion-dollar startup to collapse and coming back to launch, invest in, and grow over 50 companies. He’s got a new book out, which I am a big fan of, called Hunting Discomfort: How to Get Breakthrough Results in Life and Business No Matter What.

Sterling, welcome back to the show.

No matter what. Thanks, John. Great to be back with you. Thanks for having me on.

I want to ask you about three ways that we can start hunting discomfort and how that can help us change our lives for the better. Many of us avoid it. The concept of the comfort zone is what we all know, and I remember hearing years ago that if you’re not actively getting outside your comfort zone, your comfort zone shrinks. That was a shock to me. The majority of the time, I’m trying to be in my comfort zone, not hunt discomfort.

That’s probably the thing I hear most about this book. People tell me, “Sterling, look at my business, bank account, relationships, friends, and family. I don’t need to hunt discomfort. I’m surrounded by it.” My answer is always the same. That means you’re living with discomfort, not hunting it. When you’re hunting discomfort, you are forever free of it. Not circumstantially free. Not like, “I need enough money, then I will. I need to be in the right relationship, then I will.” It’s free based on yourself. It’s the only real freedom there is.

It’s an oxymoron, isn’t it? Our brain thinks, “How can I be free of discomfort if I’m hunting it?” Part of it is we’re in control a little bit. Would that be accurate? If you’re hunting something, you’re not afraid of it.

I found this research at the University of Michigan and they were studying my favorite topic, which is discomfort. They were looking at physical discomfort, maybe you broke something, emotional discomfort, you lost a job, broke up with a loved one, and mental discomfort, on and on. They were scanning people’s brains and their bodies. What they found blew me away.

[bctt tweet=”Loneliness can be cured when people feel seen and heard.” username=”John_Livesay”]

No matter what discomfort we were experiencing, physical, mental, emotional, or arguably spiritual, but that wasn’t in the study. Our bodies and brains process them identically. So much so, you can take a sip of methapine, and it will help you with emotional pain, believe it or not. That’s not a bio-hack from Sterling, by the way. I’m not suggesting that.

We have mentioned this hashtag that’s part of your brand, #NoMatterWhat. We’re going to get into why some of us back off from the discomfort the minute it starts to hurt but your whole premise is lean into it a little bit.

It will build the muscle for it because if we process it the same everywhere, we can grow our capacity to deal with it anywhere. You go to the gym to build your biceps. If you want to grow your resiliency and ability to breakout growth, will you hunt discomfort? There’s no other way.

You have all these great social media posts about how you yourself physically push past your own level of comfort, like riding a bike up a mountain or all these athletic things you do. How did you first start to embrace this as one of your favorite topics?

It was forced on me. I don’t wish discomfort on anybody, myself included. As you alluded to a little bit on my introduction, I was part of a massive startup. We raised hundreds of millions of dollars, a multibillion-dollar valuation. It was like the Apple Pay before Apple Pay. Hugely successful for a while then long story, very long story, very painful story, very short is when the company collapsed, so did I. My identity, how I saw success, how I saw my friends, and how I saw everything was so tied to it. The company crashed, and so did I.

It was like I was thrown into the unknown or ultimate discomfort. Having some of those dark nights of the soul kinds of moments, I’m asking myself, “Why am I here? What’s my life about? Where do I go from here?” As part of building myself back, I said, “I don’t know what I’m going to do or how I’m going to do it, but I’m going to take steps forward no matter what.” That was the origin of the whole thing.

TSP Sterling Hawkins | Hunting Discomfort

Hunting Discomfort: Commit to one thing every day that you’ll do no matter what.

 

One of my favorite lines from your various successful and popular keynote is from the boardroom back to?

My parents’ house.

I think that’s such a fascinating, humble, vulnerable way to look at that. Let’s assume now that you have got us to start thinking, “I’m going to start hunting discomfort.” Is there one thing we can start to do that would be an easy first step? Is it take a cold shower, or is there something else you recommend?

You could. I’m a fan of that cold exposure therapy, for sure, but I suggest to people, especially those getting started, to commit to one thing every day that you’ll do no matter what. It doesn’t have to be the same thing. It might be, “I’m going to call my mom and I’m going to send this email. I’m going to make a cold call the next day.” It can be different. When you get up in the morning, you commit to one thing you’ll do no matter what. What that does is it builds your capacity to get things done regardless of the circumstances.

Many people give excuses for why they didn’t return the phone call. “I know I promised I was going to do this and I got distracted by this or that.” At the end of the day, it’s an integrity thing, isn’t it? Keeping your word to yourself is the first step.

It is, and when we are thrown into chaos that is not of our own choosing, pandemic, tech disruption, you lose your job, or whatever it is, we have built that muscle inside of us to get things done.

[bctt tweet=”You can hunt discomfort at any age.” username=”John_Livesay”]

A lot of people have goals and dreams, and they get stuck, or they give up on their dreams, but you’re saying that we start working this muscle of hunting discomfort. It gives us more tools in the toolbox to make those dreams come true. Do you have a story of that happening?

I would say it a little bit differently. I would say that you get the discomfort out of the way that’s in the way of reaching your full potential. I think there’s an innate love, joy, happiness, and gratitude inside each of us. That is I promise you greater than whatever is in front of us. When we get the discomfort out of the way at that, we become literally unstoppable.

One of our mutual friends, Emanuel, who’s part of the #NoMatterWhat community, is a great example of this. He lost his job as many did going into the pandemic. He was confronted with this question, “Where do I go from here? What are my next steps?” I think you know this story but he was walking by himself somewhere in the suburbs of New York. He stumbled into this tattoo parlor and said, “I want to get a tattoo of the business I want to start on my left bicep.” He did. It’s massive. It takes over his whole bicep. I don’t know how he explained that to his wife when he got home, but he committed in a way where there was no going back.

It’s a very important part of getting results. I would call it getting a tattoo. Proverbial, but he got literally a tattoo. Within weeks of that, he had moved to Texas. He had started his business. He started working with many clients, myself included. We started doing some work directly with him, and he’s built an eight-figure company.

He and his wife are traveling in Portugal.

They’re in Peru at the moment. They’re living the dream.

TSP Sterling Hawkins | Hunting Discomfort

Hunting Discomfort: Feeling alone isn’t a function of having people around. It’s a function of being seen for who you are.

 

I’ve seen that tattoo, and I thought to myself, “That is a level of commitment.” I’ve only seen it when people were drinking the proverbial Kool-Aid at Nike, and they’d get the swoosh tattooed on them. What I love about what he did is he had the tattoo before the outcome. I think that’s what you’re talking about.

That’s critical. Otherwise, it’s a memory, which is fine. This is not a critique of tattoos, obviously, but when you commit and don’t know how you’re going to achieve it. You know it’s not impossible but you’re not exactly sure how. That’s a real commitment that is going to make a difference for you. It worked for him, me, and anybody that uses it.

Yes, and one of the things I admire about him is his willingness to give people a sample at no charge of his work because he believed in it so much and knew that he would pay for it.

I don’t think he’s doing that anymore.

No, he doesn’t need to, but that reminds me of Mrs. Fields’ cookies that used to stand outside. You’d smell it, but they go, “Do you want a free sample?” Everybody would come and eat multiple cookies. When you’re starting out with that commitment, it’s a total belief and has something of value. If I have to give it away or a sample of it, prove it. I will, and most people aren’t willing to do that. He came from a very humble place of that. Look how it’s paid off. It’s great.

You introduced me to him. I introduced him to people here in Austin who since have hired him. It’s very cumulative. That energy is very contagious, and you want to help someone like that. Do you think it’s ever too early or too late for someone to hunt discomfort? They’re like, “I’m 100 years old or I’m only 20 and whatever.”

[bctt tweet=”No matter what kind of discomfort we are experiencing – physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual – our bodies and brains process them identically.” username=”John_Livesay”]

Only the people that aren’t born yet or are already dead. For everybody else, it’s not only helpful but it’s critical and living a meaningful life. One of the reasons I wrote this book is because I want myself and the people I work with to be able to look at their life on their deathbeds and say, “I lived something that was true to myself.” The number one deathbed regret is, “I wish I had the courage to live true to myself.” If this movement can give even a couple of people that courage, that’s what it’s about.

You talk about self-doubt and how our brain is wired to look for patterns of failure if we let it. The awareness is that it’s a fight or flight response. It’s why of doing that but we need to override that. How do we do that?

It’s something that we can have worked to our advantage. There’s something in our brains called the Reticular Activation System, RAS for short. It works like the bouncer of our conscious mind. It looks at all the things in the world and says, “These are the important things for you to pay attention to.” The reason why I bought a new car and now I see that car everywhere. It’s the RAS kicking in, knows that it’s important, and now it looks for it. It’s not everybody bought the same car on the same day I did. It’s the fact that I started noticing.

When we succumb to self-doubt, what happens is that RAS is tuned, looking for reasons to give us an out, to make us fail, to have us crash and burn, especially if we failed in a similar way before. The good news is that RAS also works the other way. This was a perfect segue, John. When you make that big commitment, you’re behind it, and you are all in no matter what, your brain will start to look for openings for action, new opportunities, and new potentials like it did for Emmanuel. That RAS, when we’re a victim of it, it will kill you. When you use it to create breakthrough success, it’s the tool that will let you see things that are invisible from where you sit now. It’s hugely powerful.

It’s almost like we’re rewiring the fight or flight response to work since we’re not being chased by cyber tooth tigers anymore. We’re rewiring it to, “Don’t constantly focus on what could go wrong or what’s a danger here. I want you to start focusing on opportunities and any progress and reinforce that.” It’s helpful. This other part of the exposure, you have something here called The Loneliness Factor, which is rarely addressed in a business book.

I want to give you huge kudos for that. When I moved from being in the heart of everything in Austin near the airport by a house, I had some friends who live in the heart of everything come and visit. They said, “Aren’t you lonely out here?” I thought to myself, “I don’t think loneliness is a geographic thing.”

TSP Sterling Hawkins | Hunting Discomfort

Hunting Discomfort: How to Get Breakthrough Results in Life and Business No Matter What

We’ve been at a party and feel very lonely sometimes or sometimes you feel you’re with one person and you don’t feel that. I don’t need to be crowded to not feel lonely. I thought that was such a fascinating thing. Everybody has different needs. I need to step outside my door in Manhattan and be in Times square in order not to feel lonely is not my MO. This concept of exposure and aloneness, can you address that a little bit? Tell us about the visual of trying to climb a smooth wall. It is so great.

I’d be happy too. Feeling alone isn’t a function of having people around. It’s a function of being seen for who you are. What happens for many of us, and I was certainly a victim of this myself, is we want to be accepted. We want to be successful and seen as successful with the people around us, family, friends, our coworkers, investors, and what have you. From an evolutionary standpoint, it makes a ton of sense because if you were kicked out of your tribe in the caveman days, it didn’t mean you didn’t have friends anymore. It meant death, like literal death.

We now have that same biological response where we’ve constructed these identities, views, ways of thinking, being, and acting that satisfy those around us but maybe aren’t true to who we are. When we let people into that view of who we are, we open ourselves to be a little bit vulnerable. It not only makes us not feel alone anymore. It makes us feel seen. It also helps other people connect with us. The wall analogy you used, I thought of that. I talked to my mom one day. We were out rock climbing and talking about love.

I always have these deep, profound conversations with my mom, and we were talking about perfection because we’re both recovering perfectionists. I said, “Perfectionism is like a smooth granite wall. There’s nothing to grab onto and climb. There’s nothing that makes it stand out. It’s perfect.” As there’s a wall that’s got some cracks in it, crevices, places for a foothold, or a handhold, that’s how you connect to it.

It’s the same with love. When we open ourselves, show those cracks, and show those imperfections, not only is it something that people can grab onto. We feel seen and somewhat paradoxically. We also get all the results, dreams, connections, and even money that we’ve always wanted. They are in the same place.

Talking about perfectionism as a goal and the smoothness of a wall with no cracks reminds me of what people talk about with plastic surgery that it’s called Plastic For A Reason. If you don’t have any character on your face, there’s not a laugh line or a wrinkle, then you can’t relate to that. That’s like a doll instead of a person. It doesn’t feel emotional. Actresses have gotten so much Botox that they lose their acting chops. I think there’s a lot to be explored there in terms of not being afraid to let the light in on those cracks and tell people, “I don’t have all the answers all the time.”

[bctt tweet=”There’s innate love, joy, happiness, and gratitude inside each of us that is greater than whatever is in front of us. When we get the discomfort out of the way, we become unstoppable.” username=”John_Livesay”]

It also leads to high-performing business cultures. It’s not just to feel good. The feel-good component is fantastic and arguably the most important thing. When you’re in a business, community, family, or any cultural dynamic that does that, you’re going to perform infinitely better because, as you said, you’re going to talk about your failures. You’re going to open yourself up and say, “I don’t know but let’s figure it out together.”

One of the other sections in Hunting Discomfort that jumped out at me was the concept of balancing discomfort with surrender. With those two words together, alone seemed like a lot to handle. Let alone coming up with a balance and then you talk about our comfort zone. What I love about this is the concept. There’s a difference, a distinction between mild discomfort and severe discomfort. On the far extreme is it’s paralysis of it, where we’re not even moving at all. Let’s give people a hint so that they want to get the book and read this themselves. On either side of growth is either mild discomfort or severe. I think of it as salsa. Do you want mild, medium, or hot?

One of the quotes that have always meant a lot to me is the Robert Frost quote, the way out is through. If the way out is through, the way through is to surrender. Not in terms of giving up, sitting on the couch, or ordering a pizza. Although there’s a time and a place for that surrender in terms of accepting what is, how it is, and how it isn’t, including yourself. When you do that, it frees you from the views, perspectives, ways of thinking, and enacting that have successfully gotten you to the way you are now, but they’re limiting you from taking that next step. How we surrender and how we move into discomfort is very important.

I saw a lot of these concentric circles on Instagram like you’re in your comfort zone, and the further you get away from that, the more dreamland of growth there is. That’s simply not the case. The sweet spot of discomfort is more like a bell curve. If you’re in your comfort zone all the time, that’s not good. There’s no growth. You’re not going to progress anything for yourself or your business. On the other side of that can be thoroughly paralyzed. Part of the reason I wrote the book is because there are steps for how to do this. You want people around you. You want the right environment to be able to move from that discomfort.

If you don’t have that in place, too much discomfort can be traumatic and make your discomfort even worse. There is this sweet spot that’s different for everybody. That splits the difference between comfort and extreme discomfort. That’s where growth is. When you’re in that spot, according to Yale’s research, you are able to learn four times faster. It’s like a bio-hack to getting better, faster, and smarter.

A lot of companies are bringing you in as the keynote speaker to talk about this very topic. You’re represented by Executive Speakers. They manage you. Who are some of the ideal audiences that you find craving this content?

TSP Sterling Hawkins | Hunting Discomfort

Hunting Discomfort: When you make that big commitment and you are all in no matter what, your brain will start looking for openings for action, new opportunities, and new potentials.

 

It’s the audiences that are looking for growth. There are two flavors of them, you could say. One is companies and cultures that are facing extreme adversity. Maybe they’ve had some pandemic fallout, got labor shortages, supply chain issues, and people in Europe somehow involved in the war over there. They’ve got extreme adversity, and yet they still want to grow no matter what.

That is an audience where the #NoMatterWhat and Hunting Discomfort message has resonated. The other group are people that may be doing well already but want a breakthrough. They’re ready from an investment, a culture, and a company standpoint. They’re saying, “We’ve been successful thus far. We’ve been in business for maybe a while, and we’re ready to take it up a notch. Can you help us do that, Sterling?” The answer is certainly yes.

The keynote is just a start. From the keynote, we get into creating the ultimate intent of the company, leadership, and everybody that works there. It’s what matters to them at the end of the day or at the end of their lives. As that becomes a guiding beacon for each of them individually and their company culture, that’s what’s going to produce the breakout growth.

It sounds like you’re also helping companies attract great talent. If someone has that personal motto or I want to keep growing, I’m going to go work for a company that matches that vision versus another offer I have that maybe seems content to rest on their laurels. It’s the company that is growing, pushing, and hunting the discomfort that fits my needs. Those are the top producers in any field, whether it’s sales, tech, or what have you. The book again is called Hunting Discomfort on Amazon and anywhere you buy your book. If people want to get ahold of you as a speaker or a consultant, where should they go, Sterling?

SterlingHawkins.com. That’s got all our social media. You can join that #NoMatterWhat community there and check out all the details around the book and everything else. Thanks for that, John.

Thank you. What a great gift to the world at a time it’s certainly needed. When you’re describing all those people who are facing supply chain challenges and employee shortages or challenges with European at war, I’m like, “Your phone must be ringing off the hook.” It’s well deserved.

Thank you. We’ve been very busy, and I’m grateful for every moment of it.

Thanks again, Sterling.

Thank you, John.

 

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Tags: comfort zone, commitment, Hunting Discomfort, limiting beliefs, loneliness, taking steps forward